Understanding Roof Ventilation in Modern Firefighting (Training Video)

(Illustrative)

Firefighting is a demanding profession that requires extensive training and continual practice. Communities rely on firefighters for far more than fire suppression alone; they often respond to car accidents, search and rescue operations, medical emergencies, and other critical situations as they arise. It is a noble profession—one that consistently serves the community in meaningful and visible ways. Few careers contribute to society as directly and undeniably as firefighting.

Continuous Learning and Safety

To be an effective firefighter, continuous learning is essential. Ongoing training not only improves performance on scene but also helps keep fellow firefighters and the public safe. Fire behavior, building materials, and response techniques evolve, and staying informed can make a critical difference during emergencies.

Understanding Roof Ventilation

The video referenced here focuses on roof cutting, a technique used to ventilate a structure during a fire. I regularly watch videos like this to better understand how these operations are performed, so that if I ever need to apply the knowledge—or simply recognize what is happening on scene—I have a basic understanding of the process. There are situations where firefighters must operate on rooftops to improve conditions inside a burning structure.

Roof Integrity and Firefighter Awareness

In the video, firefighters appear to be cutting between rafters to create ventilation openings and then tipping the cut sections over. A firefighter also uses a long pole to strike the roof, checking for soft spots. This step is critical, as roof integrity can weaken rapidly as fire consumes structural walls and joists. Firefighters often move across these roofs, and stability can change quickly.

The Purpose of Ventilation

It is important to avoid cutting in areas where flames are already venting aggressively through the roof. Proper ventilation allows smoke and heat to escape, improving visibility and conditions inside the structure. In smoke-filled environments, visibility is extremely limited, and even small improvements can greatly enhance situational awareness, reduce injuries, and increase the likelihood of locating victims or controlling the fire effectively.

*If you would like to donate to a great fire department in the UP that serves not only its community but also the communities around it then send a message to the right and I will put you in contact with the right people. Further, this department is bucking the trends and more young people are involved than I have seen in other places indicating it is a good working model. There are equipment and training needs you could support. 

Nice video....

The Difference Between Hate and Anger (The Story of the Clan)

(Illustrative)

Ever person has rights.

Good people know that. I thought

our founding mothers and fathers

already covered this. They

left us some notes, papers,

stories, and signatures

related to their sacrafices.

When they hate, you respond

with kindness. When

they corrupt you respond

with moral conviction.

Say "hi" and be polite

where ignorance is normalized.

Be kind for yourself

and not for them. They

have not developed as people

yet.

Their failures are not yours as

long as you supported

what was good and had

disdain for what was wrong. 

"Never does hatred cease by

hating in return; only through

love can hatred come

to an end. This is an unalterable law."

Buddha

This is an interesting piece on the difference between hate and anger, and the distinct purposes each serves. According to the discussion, anger is often about confrontation and, at times, resolution. Hate, by contrast, is more closely tied to the desire to neutralize others or make targets suffer. Where anger can be temporary and situational, hate tends to be sustained and destructive. In the Story of the Clan years of targetings and financial incentives for doing so would indicate more hate than anger (...along with corruption and other patterns of wrongdoing by some group members)

In our hypothetical story of the clan—used as a learning-focused thought experiment—this distinction is essential. Come to any conclusion you desire based on your personal beliefs. Thinking about it is enough. Hate is portrayed as an extremely corrosive force, one that can persist for years if left unchecked (or fostered as an unwritten policy of entitlement.). When adequate checks and balances are functionally absent, hate can become normalized within parts of a system, serving as an indicator of futures unknown (Time actually does answer all questions. The more time it takes to correct, then the higher the crimes of intentional negligence. History shows the past and the lessons we should learn so we do not carry the same mistakes into the future.  A type of metric. Time is a series of choices so make sure yours are doing good.)

In our example there was no one immune; except the perpetrators. Children were put at risks, people followed home, open manipulation, group targetings, the sick taken advantage of, threats of violence, staring people down, hostile group antics, allegations of sexual exploitation by some officials, secret courts and whistleblower target lists, a few corrupted law officers taught perptrators how to target people (Where did they learn it from?) and conflicts of interests with judges (some officials later caught in other misbehaviors that should have been investigated instead given sweet deals), rumor spreading, damaging employment prospects and pretty much anything you wanted to do against "those people" (Not always just "those people" and that included others. They damages their whole community in some ways because they want to please their bigotroes. Decline in relation to the Clans rise apparent but good people started to reverse. They did stop for a short time when they realized they could actually get busted but continued again once they realized there were no functional checks and balances in our story. Reassurances that their behaviors were sanctioned. False alarm on values. All normal again...).

The perpetrators have no real reason to hate the targets other then they were told it was the "cool thing to do" with a few manipulted pieces of information and people wanted things (greed and financial goals). The amount of people who came out and acted was an amazing site to see. The victims took with grace and encourage the system to adapt to protect the next victims and generation. Open attempts to harm targets, remove them from social clubs, and cleanse them out of the community even though they had more rights to be there then the perpetrators and have earned them many times over. Laws non functional protected by partisanship despite being highly illegal. The victims had to deal with aggression after aggression from people they had no problem with. The clan oriented courts were well aware of the wrongdoing but had their own religious and political perspectives and wanted others to learn "a lesson" on how things work in the real world. (That is the world they see but if we squint our eyes we can envision a better one. Work to protect institutions from misuse.). Dehumanization normalized, fostered and in the process of collectivization (not by accident).

Because this is a constructive scenario, we are free to imagine a different outcome. In our version, the system ultimately does adapt. It strengthens support for ethical officials and public servants, reinforces accountability, and develops mechanisms to identify and remove bad actors. Rather than collapsing under corruption and hate, the system learns, reforms, and begins to function as it was intended. It serves its people and trust moves upward (Trust is related to functionality). It honors the vast majority of good officials who stand by their oaths and communities. They are our heros and corrupted people should be removed no matter the institution or organization. When they hate, understand where it comes from and your duty to reply with truth and kindness. These issues can be resolved if you think about what is essential and helpful to everyone. Let us not repeat the past. Let us learn from our real time failures.

How might anger versus hate have different outcomes, velocity and duration when directed at targets? Hate and Anger are Different

Ocean Beach Pier Sunset Picture: Taking in the Moment With Coffee

If anyone is interested in this image, I’d be happy to print and send it to you. Much of the profits, assuming there are any, I give away—just send me a message to the right and let me know what you have in mind. $50 for something up to the poster level and I can quote you if you want special sizes. Feel free use the PayPal to send me your purchase need. You might want to include "OB Pier Sunset" so I know which one you want. 

I can offer posters, canvas prints, small or large formats, and custom sizes. Prints can be matted or left unmatted, depending on your preference. 

The photo captures beautiful markings in the sand, rich tones of orange, and a calm, inviting atmosphere—a place that feels perfect for a quiet stroll with a cup of coffee, taking in the moment.

OB Pier Sunset

The Potential Benefits of the Hypothetical Feather Party

When it is important to
listen to the average 
people.

We are at a point in society where we need to think more carefully about the long-term health of our political system and the outcomes of our choices. For much of our history, we have operated under a two-party structure. Occasionally, an independent candidate would emerge, draw some support, and then the system would largely revert back to two dominant parties. For the most part, this arrangement worked, and as a society we were able to accomplish what needed to be done.

The system was never perfect. People argued, criticized one another, and sometimes engaged in sharp rhetoric, but when it truly mattered, compromise was still possible. Over the past decade, however, something has shifted. Partisanship has become more entrenched, and special interests have grown more influential in shaping outcomes. It has become increasingly difficult to pass legislation that satisfies both sides. Basic reforms have stalled, leaving many people at risk, and trust in institutions has declined, as reflected in multiple public opinion polls.

At the same time, wealth has become more concentrated, and political influence has followed it. Decision-making increasingly caters to those with money and access. Today, one of the most reliable paths to political success is navigating a highly vetted process that favors strict party-line thinking, special interests, and wealthy donors. As a result, variability in thought has declined while polarization has increased. While elitism has always played a role in politics, the time has come for everyday people to have a stronger voice and for their needs to be taken seriously. We are not the peasants of the past; the public today is more educated and informed than at any point in history. The people should always be the ultimate stakeholders.

This brings us to a hypothetical “Feather Party”—a thought experiment exploring what it might look like if a third party consistently held around 15% of the vote and could tip outcomes one way or another. This party would represent ordinary people with strong critical-thinking skills—individuals with balanced perspectives and practical judgment. Imagine a system in which most policies receive roughly 50% support and 50% opposition from the two major parties no matter what was presented. A smaller, independent party could introduce flexibility, allowing its members to vote their conscience and bringing greater nuance into the decision-making process.

Such a party could also help elevate new voices into the political mainstream, especially if strict caps were placed on political donations . Its members would sell ideas, not their integrity. Contributions would be made because supporters believe in the party’s principles, not because they expect favors in return. If someone disagrees with those principles, they are free to support another party. In this model, the distorting effects of special-interest money and implicit self interest would be significantly reduced. The cost of campaigns perhaps less as there is no need to get a majority of votes except in local arenas where candidates are already known to the public on a more intimate level.

Importantly, this would not need to be an oppositional party. Rather than defining itself by ideology, it would rely on a decision-making framework that evaluates each issue on its own merits. The party would not be obligated to support or oppose legislation based on party loyalty, but instead to vote according to conscience, with an eye toward the betterment of society and future generations. Because it would not define itself against another group, it would not need to engage in constant infighting. There is no party to bash as each party member only votes what they believe. 

This brings the question back to the reader: would a party like this be beneficial? Maybe we are happy with the way things are today and if so we should continue forward without introducing a new factor Why fix what isn't broken? Some argue that it would simply siphon votes and complicate the system. Others fear that limiting the influence of money would prevent certain interests from achieving their goals(good or bad). Still others contend that special interests have always been part of political decision-making and always will be. Yet new ideas often produce new outcomes, and the purpose of such a party would be to create a stronger pipeline from everyday citizens to leadership, fostering a more balanced and grounded approach to policy. They round out the sharp edges of modern politics.

The choice is yours. If you believe the current system is working well, this may seem like a pointless mental exercise. But if you believe the status quo has real shortcomings, it may be worth considering—at least hypothetically—how an alternative like this might function. There is no right or wrong answer but just a moment to think about it. What matters is engaging with the idea, thinking it through, and arriving at your own conclusion. Accept or reject is all ok. 

Doing The Right Thing Even When Costly (The Story of the Clan)

 

Doing the Right Thing and Its Consequences

(Illustrative)
Lance knows people
are going to hate him
for their perceived understanding
of his religion, his life, 
his values, his politics,
and his beliefs. 
He knows such people hate others
as well. "Better than thou" language.
He made oaths and vows
a long time ago and knows the
difference between right and wrong.
 
He also understands history
and the struggles of people. 

Great societies are built
from people who have values
and will stand for them
regardless of the personal costs. 

He glances at his
persecutors and says "line up". 
No anger, no real resentment,
just new knowledge.
He knows the meaning of 
sacrafice. 

A notepad and some scribbles
are left outside by the door
just in case they want to
learn something. 
Lesson one: Be a descent human
being.
Students become teachers. 👆

Interesting article
Taking Time and Doing the Right Thing

Doing the right thing often comes with consequences that range from social ostracism to coordinated aggression. Despite these risks, ethical action remains essential from a philosophical standpoint. It is through principled behavior that stronger societies are built and institutions are improved to better serve their stakeholders. The Story of the Clan is a philosophical, theoretical, and hypothetical thought experiment that explores what happens when hate and corruption are allowed to operate unchecked. Take with a grain of salt.

---

The Breakdown of Accountability

In this story, a large group of individuals engaged in repeated misconduct. This included making threats, placing children at risk, openly joking about wrongdoing, undermining parents, and causing harm to minors, self-enrichment, etc. The group manipulated elderly and vulnerable individuals for financial gain, spread hate-based rumors, encouraged violence and intimidation against victims, retaliated against whistleblowers, and leveraged relationships within law enforcement to initiate false investigations while protecting their own members from accountability.

Over time, corruption became normalized. While this behavior did not reflect the vast majority of public servants—many of whom act with integrity and deserve respect—it did represent a small, interconnected network with a semi-documented history of similar behavior. These patterns were not adequately tracked, nor were objective or independent investigations conducted (Blaming and harming the victims is the best way not to change or get better. There is a reason why closed systems and their supporters do this.). In many cases, it was simply easier—and more socially acceptable—to reward or ignore bad behavior than to confront it.

---

Philosophical Foundations and Core Values

Philosophers tend to think at a different level. They often delve into the fundamental roots. Certain core values form the backbone of society. While people and cultures evolve, some principles should never be violated. Although those who defend these values may be in the minority, they believe deeply in doing what is right and in honoring their ethical obligations regardless of risk.

It makes no difference whether there are ten, one hundred, or one million individuals attempting to violate human rights, civil rights, religious freedom, political expression, or other forms of social cohesion. The moral response remains the same. History shows that allowing such violations to persist leads to long-term harm that far outweighs the discomfort of standing up in the moment. Yes there are consequences for being a good person.  (In this learning example so much aggression of various forms have been pushed on a philosopher with a free pass for all of it that the target has become increasingly knowledgeable of how it functions. That will be used to protect future people and children from such groups. Wisdom Can Come from Experience)

The philosopher is the person encouraging you to reflect and think before coming to a heuristic self-interested, social network sanctioned choice because reason over leverage is important (People who gravitate toward reason versus leverage are different breeds. Reason is a long-term solution that can be hard to implement while leverage is a short-term solution that may have long-term negative implications. Each one can be used at its appropriate time and place but that should be based on insight and a true north compass.)

---

Why People Take the Risk

Why would anyone take such risks with so few immediate rewards? Because they have studied history and understand society beyond what is conveniently presented in textbooks. While most people are fundamentally good and want to support their communities, those with dark-triad traits often exert disproportionate influence within dysfunctional social networks. When unchecked, these individuals can cause widespread harm (Self-interested individuals will always be present so checks and balances with a mixture of promoting the best and brightest can make a difference. Religion, science, philosophy, history and experience should teach us something about true leadership.).

There are also sociological and economic implications to consider. When victims’ rights are dismissed simply because it is easy or convenient, their concerns go unexamined and unresolved. Corrupt networks are then allowed to operate for years. Even when wrongdoing is exposed, perpetrators are often offered lenient arrangements or “graceful exits” rather than meaningful accountability (It is not about the shallow hal's getting in trouble...as that is the least of concerns. It is an issue much broader than that.). True institutional development requires correction and adaptation to a higher moral conscious. 🤔 Strong institutions must be fair, transparent, and aligned with the core values generations have worked to establish.

---

Sacrifice, Responsibility, and the Future

Standing for what is right is rarely easy, and the costs often outweigh the immediate benefits. Still, it is a meaningful sacrifice—one made for a fairer society, for the protection of others, and for the preservation of values passed down over generations. These philosophical principles were eventually codified into law because countless individuals sacrificed to make them real. Imagine if our founding fathers and mothers just gave up because it was convenient and expected. 😬

When you stand for those values, you honor centuries of sacrifices and safeguard the future for your children and grandchildren. How we view the world matters. Togetherness, kindness, fairness, freedom to worship, inherrent human value, and justice are not abstract ideals—they are the foundation of stronger institutions and more resilient societies. The choices is yours to make and time answers all questions.....

Detroit Economic Club: Donald Trump Discusses Economy

You may be interested in watching some comments and discussion on the economy. Listening to such events leads to greater knowledge of policy direction. The DEC hosts a variety of leaders from different industries.

Delta County MI Board of Commissioners Meeting (1/6/2026)-Board Appointments, Trade Zones, Victims, and Commercial Fishing (Don't forget optimism!)

(Illustrative Only)
This couple thinks  
they can work with local
commercial fishing
entities they can brand
fish sticks and export
fish products to the
domestic and international
markets that need fish protein.
Local stores might 
like to buy their
products and tourists
might love to learn about
the local fishing industry
starting as far back as Native American
fishing
so they visit regularly.
Online sales have grown
creating more local
wealth and tax revenue.
Wait for the
invention of the
Perch Pastie!
They are hoping
others see the value
of local investment. 
(Free idea!)

The Value of Optimism 
for Economics

This meeting provided interesting discussion on the following topics. The transcripts below are provided by YouTube. Keep paying attention because important changes occured a few years ago and the area is on an upward trajectory for corporate and start-up investment. Significant infrastructure improvements. Good things to come.... 

A few key topics, 

-Lots of discussion on board appointments

-Superior Trade Zone

-Some discussion on victims rights. 

-Commercial fishing access (One might think the need for fish protein is not going away and there are all types of fish jockeying between countries. The Great Lakes are enclosed and long standing treaties. It would be nice if State and Federal government would send less of our taxpayer money overseas and instead use a fraction of it to enhance the economic and social value of the Great Lakes. Might be bigger benefit as

stewards of public resources. A local hatchery to spur more commercial and hobby fishing would be nice. Just a thought. Maybe or maybe not? Make your own opinion. Priorities and choices lead to outcomes.)

 Transcripts are auto generated.

0:21

minute is always so long.

0:39

A reorganizational meeting of the Delta County Commissioners is being held this date pursuant to the following call. In

0:46

a letter to the commissioners dated December 30th, 2025 and reading as follows. The honorable members of the

0:51

Delta County Board of Commissioners. Dear commissioners, a reorganizational meeting of the Delta County Board of Commissioners is scheduled for Tuesday,

0:57

January 6, 2026 at 5:15 p.m. in the conference room at the Delta County

1:03

Service Center. Sincerely, yours Nancy Presi, Delta County Clerk. Please rise for a word of prayer.

1:11

Lord, as we begin this meeting, we are thankful for our many blessings. We ask for guidance to help our commissioners

1:17

make decisions in the best interest of the citizens of our county. And Lord, we pray for the safety of our military men

1:22

and women and our first responders. Amen. I aliance

1:28

to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it

1:33

stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice

1:39

for all. Roll call. Commissioner Melner here. Commissioner Johnson

1:45

here, Commissioner Williams here, Commissioner Vanenhovven here, and Commissioner Jensen here.

1:50

Okay, I now call this meeting to order. And our first uh agenda item is election

1:56

of the board chair. I am going to open the floor for any nominations for board chair.

2:02

I would like to nominate myself for board chair and I also will nominate myself for board chair.

2:07

Okay, I'll nominate John Melner for board chair.

2:13

Are there any other nominations? I will nominate myself for board chair.

2:20

Okay. Are there any other nominations? Are there any other nominations? And a

2:26

third time. Are there any other nominations? Um, we can do this secret ballot. So, I'm going to hand out a

2:32

ballot. We have to vote for secret ballot. Okay. Would anybody care to have a secret

2:38

ballot? Okay. All those in favor of a secret ballot. I Those opposed?

2:44

I oppose. Okay. It just takes a majority though. So

3:51

Well, we don't have a majority, so I've never had this happen before. I think we

3:57

take another vote. Um, but is there are there ties within there?

4:04

Is there anyone who has one? Well, there's there's three people who have one and then there's one person who

4:10

has two. Okay, gotcha. So, so we would have to revote.

4:17

Okay.

4:32

Favor. Thank you.

5:02

So,

5:20

we have the same thing. So, it looks like I'm going to be board chair. Just joking. Just joking.

5:31

I'm not sure how many times we do this, but

5:37

I am not going to change my vote. What's that? I am not going to change my vote. Okay.

5:43

I just like that to be known.

6:53

Okay. So, uh we do have a majority. Uh we have three votes for John Melner. Uh

7:01

so, um John Milner is the board chair for 2026. And so, I hand the meeting

7:08

over to you. Okay. We will now have election for vice

7:15

chair. Do I have any nominations for vice

7:20

chair? I will nominate Pat Johnson.

7:28

Commissioner Johnson. I will nominate Christine Williams.

7:35

Any other nominations for vice chair? Any

7:41

other nominations for vice chair? Any other nominations for vice chair?

7:51

Okay, it's between Chris. Uh, Commissioner Williams and

7:57

Commissioner Johnson. How would you like to

8:03

vote? Roll call. Roll call.

8:09

Okay. For do are either of those people willing to

8:16

serve as vice chair? Sure. Yep. Okay. Thank you.

8:24

We have a roll call. Commissioner Milner. Uh, Commissioner Johnson.

8:30

Johnson. Johnson. Williams. Williams. Van Hovind.

8:36

Williams. and Johnson. Johnson.

8:44

Okay. So, we have a new vice chair, Commissioner Johnson.

8:50

Congratulations. Congratulations. Thanks. Good luck, gentlemen.

8:57

B is the adoption of rules and procedures.

9:04

Uh proposal amendment.

9:10

See

9:19

that is on 1.25

9:25

rules of procedure.

9:35

Is there any motion to accept?

9:41

It's 5.2 5.25.

9:47

Yeah. do and there is

9:55

see here I would make a motion to accept the

10:02

changes to the rules of procedure for uh section 5.2 to the agenda.

10:08

I'll support as presented. Sorry. Sorry. I'll support

10:17

discussion. Is there any discussion on 5.2?

10:23

I did have one question if I may. The uh where we're briefly writing a

10:29

description like what are we looking for in that description? Are we looking for a paragraph, a sentence, and then are we

10:34

going to be including um a brief description for all the agenda items?

10:40

Yeah, I think that's very similar to what we've found at this meeting that the administrator has done for us is

10:45

there is now um a form that's attached for each agenda item. So there's a small

10:50

description of what that agenda item pertains to so that we know ahead of the meeting why that came to be and what it

10:58

what it is. So basically the purpose is if I understand right so that um we have

11:04

less of an introduction by the person who introduced the agenda item.

11:09

Um well you might have it's less of an introduction from the administrator. The

11:15

administrator doesn't have to give the introduction for that agenda item. We know what that agenda item is and what

11:21

its intent is from the description. So, so in the past it seems as though like

11:27

if a commissioner introduced the agenda item, the commissioner gave the um introduction to that agenda item

11:33

and that makes perfect sense. Okay. Yeah. Okay. Yeah, I would still I would assume that we would would continue to do that.

11:39

Okay. Yeah. Any more discussion?

11:45

I like the new form. Yeah, I do too. I think it's great.

11:51

We have a motion. We got a second. We had discussion. All in favor?

11:56

I I. Anybody oppose? Motion passed.

12:03

No proposal on amendments. Did that all go together on that?

12:09

I did have one thing I wanted to talk about. So, with uh looking at and

12:15

Commissioner Williams and I discussed this uh when we met with um our administrator, we do have kind of a

12:21

discrepancy between our uh item 4.9 or sorry, 4.5. I'm I'm sorry, real quick. Uh point of

12:28

order. There's a second um item on the agenda that pertains to the rules of

12:34

procedure, a new new item. Is that what your question is about?

12:40

Yeah. So, that's section 6.2. 2.2

12:45

is that it should be on our agenda. So if you I have to I have the old printed

12:51

agenda. So um the agenda should have Do you have the new one? Is that on the

12:56

No, it amendments. There's two proposed amendments. Each have to be a separate motion.

13:02

Yeah. Because they're pertaining to different parts in the rules of procedure, right? But they were brought the two

13:07

that are the two that should be discussed tonight before any new ones are discussed are the ones that were at

13:13

the previous meeting. So that's what I'm getting. So is that 5.2?

13:18

6.2 6.2.

13:25

So there's a a new rule that was being proposed. It's an additional rule and

13:31

it's the disclosure of correspondence requests. that was given to you at the last

13:37

meeting. I see. And I missed it. I thought I was looking at the yellow one and I'm like,

13:42

"Okay, all the changes are in yellow. I missed the the new one, the print." Yeah. There's no yellow because it's

13:48

brand new, right? Um Yeah. So, that's the disclosure of correspondence requests. And the purpose

13:55

of that, I I lay out the purpose and how it's applicable, but the purpose is to ensure transparency, professionalism,

14:02

and mutual awareness when commissioners request access to correspondence involving other commissioners or county

14:08

staff. But what I also think I need to add in there, and I didn't originally, was it's all commissioners, elected

14:14

officials, and county staff. So that's it should read all it should be all elected officials and staff. So if one

14:21

of us outside of FOYA requests information about another or or staff

14:29

that we have to disclose that so it gives equal footing to the person who's being uh whose information is being

14:37

sought and the person who is seeking the information. It puts you on both. It puts you on level playing field.

14:46

And I I I can see that it wasn't red. So

14:52

I don't know how to proceed if you haven't had a chance to look. No, I just I just needed a second. I kind of was just looking at for the

14:58

orange. Also

15:09

move to approve. I'll support. Any more any discussion on this?

15:18

You need more time to read through with the quick question. What if the

15:24

commissioner doesn't want to know is the commissioner in that scenario? So like let's say you wanted to find

15:31

something on me and I'm like I don't care if you look or not and I don't need to know because go ahead and

15:36

then just ignore the email. Delete the email if you don't care. Well, once it's

15:41

there, it's there. Okay. That's like saying, you know, once you have every spam email, you're going

15:46

to just keep it and like review. I mean, it doesn't you don't want to look at it, don't look at it. But then we get in the habit of um

15:52

deleting emails that might be important. Like county emails, they always get a look. Wow. Okay.

15:58

But other emails don't get a look. It's like, oh, that's from that. So, that's just the fear.

16:03

Okay. Well, that's that would be I mean, it's something you'll have to manage yourself. Sure. I mean, I I I think that it's

16:09

important that uh we're transparent uh and when we're looking for information that we provide each other um enough uh

16:18

information that we can rebut something or you know uh provide um uh explanation

16:26

or whatever it might be. I think it's absolutely fair that this is outside of FOYA. So, you can obviously FOYA at to

16:35

your heart's content. uh this is outside of FOYA and so if you ask for this

16:40

information outside of FOYA that you have to disclose it

16:46

and we're looking at only FOYAable things correct I'm sorry

16:51

like so this is this is our workaround FOYA basically and just saying we're disclosing it but we're not going after

16:57

like things that normally we couldn't get without FOYA correct I'm not sure I'm trying to follow

17:03

so like let's say let's say a FOYA your emails. Um, or let's say I ask for your

17:10

emails. Either way, we're or with this, I'm going to be disclosing or we're

17:16

going to be disclosing that I'm going for your emails and I'm looking at your emails. Now, let's say this was a like a phone

17:24

call. I can't get at your phone call. Correct. Right. It t it specifically states what

17:31

what we're talking about. And this would be correspondence. So, this would be letters, memos, texts, emails, things

17:37

that are written. Okay. Yeah. Just getting clarification. I mean, the only way you can get to my phone calls would be if you have a

17:44

subpoena. I mean, that Yeah, sure. Yeah. or a warrant. I mean, that's that's a completely different subject.

17:50

So,

17:58

okay. Any more discussion? All in favor? I I

18:03

Anybody opposed? Motion pass.

18:08

So we move on to number four. The rules of procedure as a whole. No.

18:16

No. No. Nope. We need to do that.

18:21

Okay. Or bring forward. We have to adopt and then bring forward any new changes we

18:26

might want to make for the next meeting. Is there any

18:32

Can I get a motion to adopt? I'll make a motion to adopt the rules

18:38

with the two with the addition of the new rule and the amendments to the uh five section 5 sorry 5.2

18:51

and I get support support. Any discussion on all of them?

18:58

All in favor? I I I Anybody opposed? Motion pass.

19:04

Okay, I think we got them all done now.

19:10

Number six. Now the Huh? What? Now the introduction of anything new.

19:16

Correct. Yeah. So now if there's any additional changes that we want to make, this would

19:21

be your opportunity to give the 10day notice and then we would deal with it at the next meeting.

19:26

Perfect. So, okay. Is there a motion to

19:34

I think all I have to do is just say I'd like to introduce. Yes. Okay. All right. So, I'd like to introduce um I'm looking at uh 4.5. Uh

19:43

Commissioner Williams and I met with Commission or with Administrator Dvo and um she brought up some really good

19:49

points. Um it seemed a little conflicting to me as far as if you look

19:55

at 4.51. Um and it says that we're going to have

20:00

basically we're going to have department heads as commissioners or like a chair and a vice chair of the five different departments. Yeah.

20:08

Um yet if we look earlier, if we look at Oh, let me see.

20:14

If you look at um the chair and the uh responsibilities of the chair, it'd be

20:20

on page eight, the very top one. Um it says the chair shall reserve in such

20:26

capacity or capacities and make appointments as the law shall require. Um, and then we also say I want to say

20:35

and that one's a statute and to me that one kind of conflicts with how we assign

20:41

board assignments. Um, if we're supposed to have one person for each department or two people because a chair and a vice

20:47

chair for each department, that doesn't quite coincide with what the chair does

20:54

for making the appointments the way we do and the way it says that it's doing.

21:01

So my proposal would be to strike 4.5

21:12

and then just to review in 10 days. So that would be applicable to

21:19

next year then because we have to we have to we're required at our January

21:26

meeting to make our assignments and we are making our assignments based

21:31

on the rules of procedure that we have in place that have been adopted. So if this change is to be made then that

21:38

would be related for it would be relative to the next January meeting

21:43

or we postpone those board assignments and then which set of rules do we

21:48

follow? Do we follow that we're making department heads today or do we follow that the board chair is doing the

21:54

committee assignments today? I would say that we follow our rules of procedure and our rules of procedure

22:00

specifically state that we have five departments. Those five departments have a chair and a vice chair, which makes

22:07

sense to me because what we struggle with at these meetings, every January meeting is this big list of committees

22:14

and trying to assign all these different committees. And what the rules of procedure say are

22:20

actually very efficient and very clear. You assign a chair and a vice chair. That's it. You're done. your vice chair

22:27

and your chair are the ones who figure out how the committees and the uh agencies and the commissions and so

22:33

forth under their department how those actually get assigned and they can you

22:38

as a commissioner can say I want to serve on such and such committee in this other department that's not your

22:44

department that you're a vice chair and chair for no problem they just consider the vice chair and chair of that

22:49

department considers the input they take from the commissioners at this meeting and then figure out how their department

22:56

or how their committees are going to be assigned. So it makes perfect sense because it's the most efficient way to

23:03

do it. The way we do it is very inefficient. It doesn't make sense to

23:08

me. So our rules of procedure, I think, are very clear and I think we should be following them. We didn't follow them

23:14

this last January. Uh but I think that's because we haven't followed them for a while. We have this weird way of doing

23:20

committee assignments and I don't know where that came from. Well, and then I'm looking at 4.1.2.

23:28

And I'm looking at again, sorry, 4.1.2. 4.1.2 duties.

23:34

And I'm looking on page eight.

23:39

Kind of midway up. Yeah. Upon his or her election, a subject Yep. That right there.

23:45

Yep. So, and subject to the approval of the majority of the members, the board shall proceed to appoint all standing

23:52

and special committees. So, standing and special committees have very specific they they're they're specifically

23:58

defined in here. They are not the department committees. They are standing and special committees. So, it's very

24:05

clear that those committees and I think there's three of them in our rules of procedure. Those have special those are

24:11

assigned specially. the opioid task force, the emergency preparedness library

24:16

liaison. Those are the those are the committees that and there's three of them. So again, very efficient.

24:23

You just you have three committees that you're assigning that a chair is having to assign people to. But the others, the

24:30

vice chair and the chair of each of those departments, it's their duty. It's their responsibility to get those

24:35

committees assigned. And they could do that right after the meeting because it's not a majority. So you're not

24:41

violating OMA. So you sit together, you decide how you want to divvy stuff up and then you let the administration know

24:48

that night or the next morning and all the committees are already taken care of. What else what I also didn't notice and

24:55

why it seems like the two kind of butt heads with each other is what happens if the chair disagrees with the vice chair

25:02

of that department in the department. So the chair and the vice chair aren't agreeing. So, we're

25:07

trying to figure out what committees to put the people on and the chair and the vice chair disagree. Well, I think at that point you probably

25:13

would just have to bring it back to the full board, but it's the chair and the vice chair's responsibility to figure

25:18

out their committees within their department. I mean, it's it's very clear, but that's not in our rules and procedure to bring it back.

25:25

Well, I'm just this is a you've given me a scenario that is like what if I mean,

25:30

we could what if stuff to death, right? But what if I don't know because there's nothing in our rules of procedure, but I

25:35

would assume that if a chair and a vice chair of a department can't figure out how to make their department committees

25:42

work, then the the full board has to get involved. I don't know because it's not in our rules of procedure,

25:49

right? And so that's why I'm saying that this is seems a little outdated like even the language seems a little

25:54

outdated. um that it was something of I would say boards way way past and since

26:00

we haven't done any in forever that I would say that it it definitely needed a look at and that to me I just to me the

26:08

4.5 butts with um what's said above it it it doesn't at all what's said

26:15

above is very clear it says standing and and special committees are assigned by the chair there are three of those

26:21

committees that's very clear I mean I think you're just You want it to say

26:26

something that it doesn't say. But I could say that for both of us. No. No, not at all. I mean, I'm reading

26:32

this very It's very clear. It says, "In the interest of efficient and effective

26:38

administration and supervision of board responsibilities and of service to the people of Delta County, all county

26:45

offices, committees, commissions, boards, agencies shall be grouped under one of the following five department

26:51

headings. and department assignments and responsibilities shall be as follows unless otherwise designated by action of

26:59

the board of commissioners. And there's five five things listed. And then after

27:04

that, it says it's the responsibility of the chair and the vice chair to uh

27:11

determine how their uh the committees and and boards and commissions and

27:16

agencies are to uh be assigned.

27:21

So there's I guess one little hiccup I would I would foresee in that and it's

27:27

the depth in the amount that are in each of those. So if you take and then I'm going to shorten this from 5.1 to just

27:34

the 1 2 3 4 5s after that. So if you have um administrative services there's

27:43

two committees I believe in it. So if you're the one person that's in charge of those two and you pick 1 2 3 four

27:50

people, it's not necessarily you're not going to know who then you're appointing to the

27:58

other ones, especially when you get down to public safety or human development or physical economic ones. Um, I think you

28:07

start to have a very big depth on the amount of different committees that are there. And it's not necessarily any way

28:15

to determine, you know, that you're not overloading one or two members um with

28:22

committee assignments where I think now I think they're probably pretty pretty

28:28

evenly based. Yeah. And they could stay as they are right now and just assign the chair and

28:33

the vice chair to each of the departments as we are required to do. I mean committees can stay exactly as they

28:40

are right now with with a a vice chair and a vi and a vice a chair and a vice chair or department. That's all we have

28:46

to do is assign the department's requirement in our rules of procedure

28:51

that there's a chair and a vice chair and that the chair acts as sort of the liaison between that department and the

28:57

board. It it doesn't have to be complicated, but it does make sense. The rules of

29:04

procedure actually do make sense to me at least.

29:15

So, if I may. Yeah. Yes. Okay. So, these rules of procedure

29:20

have been in effect for a long time. There is nothing that has been changed

29:26

with them. Um, so I'm wondering why now

29:31

you would like to see this change? Uh, because the attention was brought to it. So when I was reading this in the be

29:38

well, so in the beginning when I first got on the board, I read down. I was like, "Oh, this year or past?" No, like 12 years ago.

29:44

Okay. Um, I would read down and I would say, "Okay, oh yeah, the chair assigns um the

29:49

board positions. That's how it was done." So I said, "Okay, that's great." Um, and then I read this old language.

29:54

I'm like, "Oh, that's old. We don't really do that." So we must just not do that. And you never thought to strike it all

30:00

those years ago? Never. Every year when you have reorganizational, never thought to restrike it. No, because it was just the way we did

30:07

it. But so that way it's always the way it's always been. So Patrick, I have a very

30:13

important question. So you get to this point where it says the board chair um pro, you know, appoints and then it says

30:20

standing and special committees. Did you not think to look up what are standing and special committees? I just assumed

30:25

it was the what we have listed. It's not though. There's a very specific

30:31

meaning for standing and very specific meaning for special. Sure. And so I mean that's what's important when you read

30:38

that the chair has, you know, this responsibility. You should follow through and find out, you know, what are

30:43

standing and special committees because there's only three of them. And that makes sense that the chair would assign

30:48

those. Absolutely. Because they don't belong to any department. you know, they're kind of I don't know, they're

30:55

they're a mixed bag or whatever. But that's not what this it does not say that the chair will assign every

31:02

committee. It does not say that. But I'm perfectly fine leaving the

31:07

committees as they are unless people have, you know, and that's what that was my plan. Yeah. But but I still think we have to

31:14

we still have to assign a chair and a vice chair per the departments. That's what our rules say. And it could be very

31:21

easy. I mean, I've got it right here where, you know, we know who's doing um we know who is um

31:29

who is on I have the list. I'm sorry. I'm trying to find the

31:36

I can tell you exactly which commissioners are, you know, majority for each of the departments. I worked it

31:42

out. That's what I was looking for. I did too, but I gladly give it to you. So I

31:48

mean the the chair and the vice chair for each of the departments could be as simple as you know administrative

31:53

services that would be uh chair I don't I'm assuming is chair first on this and

31:59

vice chair second uh oh is this based on the numbers

32:04

okay just make sure because that's what I based it on I based it on what uh administration sent with the numbers so

32:10

the chair would be Van Genhovven vice chair Johnson for administrative services department that simple and And

32:17

budget and finance would be Chair Williams, uh, Vice Chair Jensen. Uh, public safety and judicial services

32:24

would be Chair Melner, Vice Chair Vanenhovven. Physical economic resources

32:29

develop uh, department would be Jensen Chair, Williams, Williams vice chair,

32:34

and human development services department, Johnson, chair, vice chair Melner.

32:41

And then we would just vote that in, and then you can leave committees as they are. I mean, that's all we have to do.

32:47

Did we miss physical and economic resources and development departments? They were swapped for swap. Okay.

32:54

I I'm sorry it I just was reading off. Okay. I was trying to follow

33:03

based on numbers. So, I would make a motion I would make a

33:08

motion to assign the chair vice chair for each of the departments as

33:13

presented.

33:20

discussion. Yeah.

33:26

And I can can't pass that down to our clerk if she needs.

33:37

I need to see that, too. It was presented to us in an email. My email's been down for 3 days. It was

33:44

before that

33:50

and then you could leave department you could leave committees as are or people could say I want to serve on such and

33:55

such and we could talk like you've always done but at least we have assigned the chair and the vice chair

34:02

for each of the five departments as our rules state we

34:47

Hey, we got a motion. We got a support. I just need another minute looking at all these

35:08

So there's five so five different chairs, five different vice chairs

35:14

equally dispersed between the five commissioners. Mhm.

35:41

So am I reading it right? It's would be.

36:02

So, I'm noticing that um the physical the uh the workman's compensation board

36:10

would have um Jensen and Williams deciding who's on that one. That board is um it specifically says

36:16

and we agreed that it would go to the board chair. Okay. So, that if you look

36:21

at I think it's like the notes or something it says board chair I believe. But anyways, that we decided at the last

36:28

meeting because the policy that I had introduced was not accepted. So, it goes to the board chair.

36:34

Okay. I just want to make sure this didn't supersede that. No. Okay.

36:40

Now, any of the things that say that it's board chair, that board chair serves on it. Period. So,

36:46

and if it's like, you know, clerk or administrator or what, that's who serves on it. And keeping in mind that all of

36:53

our appointments could potentially remain exactly the same. It's just that

36:58

we would have a chair that we would be able to discuss issues with. Well, and they're the liaison between

37:04

that department and and the board. Yep.

37:24

So they can't make decisions on changing anything that's on that what they're

37:30

for right now, right? If we were to agree as a board that we're going to leave the assignments as

37:37

is and then each we're all five right here and we agree that that's what we're going to do, then that's what we would

37:42

do. If we don't agree on that, then it's up to the chair and the vice chair of that department to figure out who's

37:48

going to be assigned to what. I mean it depends on what direction this

37:53

board wants to go on that. In my opinion, it

37:59

what's happened in the past is once the assignments are assigned then you know you you stay with them unless you want

38:05

to unless someone asks you to give it up. It's sort of like last year John with the road commission. I wanted to serve on road commission. I asked if I

38:11

could serve on road commission. You said no I don't want to give that up. So I said okay. So that's the end of that you

38:17

know. So, we can do that, but following our rules of procedure, we have to have

38:22

a chair and a and a vice chair for each department. That's that's a requirement of our rules

38:27

of procedure. And it says that that the chair and the vice chair to figure out how they want

38:34

to, you know, divvy up those assignments. Well, we're all right here right now. So, if we agree that we're

38:39

just going to leave them as is, then we can do that. See, there's one thing and that goes

38:45

back to what I think it was already brought up in 4.52 in the department chair updates. If you

38:53

look um actually there's a lot of comments in there, so let me back up. Um

39:01

so right afterward where it has the regular meeting in January of each year designate one of the members as chair

39:08

and vice chair as the discussion four 4.52. Oh okay. Thank you.

39:15

Yep. There. Okay. Sorry about that. No it's okay. Um and designate one of the members as

39:22

chair and vice chair for each of the above named departments who shall serve as board coordinator.

39:28

and supervisor for the county offices, committees, and activities within that department except as the board should

39:35

otherwise direct. Um there's a little hiccup in there if you if you start

39:42

looking through um where was it here? Um

39:49

well, you have the road commission who doesn't answer to us. The drain commissioner. Um th those are two right

39:56

here. Um, right. Those are ne those have never been assigned. They're just they're just

40:02

in that grouping. Right. But if you look at public safety um from the prosecutor, the sheriff,

40:08

those are both elected offices as well. Oh, yeah. So, you're stating in that paragraph

40:13

that you are the coordinator and or supervisor for those county departments. Well, how you can't supersede another

40:21

elected official's office. Yeah. And I so I mean paragraph doesn't

40:27

doesn't work

40:33

you know if it's just a leazison and you know if there's issues you know stuff

40:39

that you can help them with stuff to make their job easier. The next paragraph, the board the board

40:44

department chairs where practical shall be appointed to serve as members as

40:50

members to committees, boards, agencies, and commissions within their department. Nothing in this section shall preclude a

40:56

board member from serving on committees in other areas. That's what we were just talking about. Uh those designated as his or her area

41:02

of responsibility by virtue of being named a department chair. And so you know if that's if it's that as a

41:08

leazison that's one thing but it says and supervisor for those offices that

41:15

yeah I agree that would be something that could be stricken stricken at a later date.

41:26

So any more discussion? We got the motion on this. We got a support. We're

41:33

in discussion. So,

41:40

are you is as the board chair, are you supposed to be making these assignments

41:45

for chair and vice chair of each committee? This is the first time I've heard of it.

41:52

Well, I mean, for for each committee. Yes. Or for but for each department. For each

41:57

of the five departments. Department. Board chair with board approval.

42:04

So, you're supposed to be setting the chair and the vice chair. It doesn't need to come to a vote according to what

42:09

I my opinion on reading this. Yeah. But nobody knew they had to do it. It's actually except for people who

42:17

So, we're we have a hiccup again. I don't know how. Okay. No, it says it says um it says uh

42:25

department assignments, responsibilities, otherwise um all committees

42:38

Yep. So it is the it says the board chair with board approval shall at their

42:45

regular meeting in January of each year designate one of their members as chair and vice chair for each of the above

42:50

named departments. So that's why that was handed out is you could you could go

42:56

by how we've already divvied up the assignments. That's what was put on that

43:01

sheet is how they're already divvied up. But yeah, the board chair,

43:07

board chair is the one who assigns the chair and the vice chair. So my question to board chair is, is that what you wish to present to us? I

43:15

feel like procedurally we went and we did from I can't remember what commissioner introduced it. Commissioner

43:21

Williams. Well, it's Van Hog. Oh, Commissioner Van Hoben. No, I supported. No, but so either way motion. My motion.

43:30

Okay. Yeah. Um but the chair should be the one introducing it and then we accept it and

43:35

the chair didn't introduce that list.

43:41

I was helping the chair out. But yeah, go ahead. So what I'm what I'm asking is

43:46

we can remove the motion and you can remotion.

43:52

The clerk may have a insight for procedure. Yeah. And I just want to It does say at

43:59

the regular meeting. It does say at the regular meeting. This

44:04

is the reorganizational meeting. So, he's not he doesn't have to do it actually until the next meeting.

44:10

It's the January. It's the first meeting in January. Well, it says regular. So, it says the first meeting in January.

44:17

The first regular meeting in January or first meeting in January? It just says the the regular meeting is

44:25

what it says. This is a reorganization. So is that regular or is that something? This is realization.

44:31

Unbelievable. You can you can just keep Well, I'm saying you don't have to do it at this minute.

44:37

Is we do we're still in discussion as my discussion. I would say why don't we

44:43

just leave the job assignments as is and I'll

44:48

change the chair and vice chair in each department and we can vote on that next meeting.

44:58

Well, why would you change them? I did them in order of of who sits on the most right now. And if we're not going to

45:04

change anything, then why wouldn't you just accept them the way they are? It's black and white.

45:11

It's all based on the numbers. It's the chair's privilege, though. Oh, God.

45:36

So logistically is this from

45:51

Okay. What? We'll go with what's written here.

46:01

So, are you introducing that then? So, I need to remove my motion because I have a motion on the floor.

46:06

I'll remove my support. Well, you still could I guess you could still make your motion as

46:14

No, he has to do it. He has to. He has to make the motion. Your chair does. He can introduce Well, no. I'm saying

46:19

that he introduces it like and then you want me to make the motion to accept his introduction

46:25

if you saw well to say this is what I this is what I've presented this is what I would like um done and then we

46:31

basically ratify it. So the motion would be to ratify the chair's decision. No disagree. Okay.

46:36

I don't I don't believe that's procedural. Yeah. I don't think so either. So you want the chair to make the motion?

46:43

I will make a motion that the board assignments and the chair and

46:51

vice chair per department would stand as

46:58

written. As presented or as presented. Okay. Do you want to read them off?

47:03

You're going to have to read them off because it hasn't been presented because the motion was rescended. Okay. Um

47:12

on the ethics it would be Elner. Oh you mean here

47:19

the department administration service department is uh Vandenhovven and

47:27

Johnson budget and finance is no

47:34

where administration. Yeah. Then budget and final sorry, you're right. You're right.

47:40

Sorry. Yeah. Is uh Commissioner Williams and Commissioner Jensen.

47:46

Public safety judicial services department is Melner and Van Hovind.

47:53

Van Ginhovven. Van Ginhovven.

47:59

Uh physician and economic resource

48:04

department is Jensen and Williams

48:12

and human development service department is Johnson and Melner

48:20

support.

48:25

All in favor? I I Anybody oppose? Motion pass. Wow.

48:32

Wow.

48:38

That was a long one. Now, are we making uh introductions for

48:43

changes? None for me. No, no, no. Is there Oh, for the

48:50

rules of procedure. Rules of procedure for the following year. Yeah.

48:55

So, strike. What was it? 4.5 in its entirety,

49:01

I believe. So, and introduce uh what we were doing before that the chair makes the appointments to all committees with

49:08

the ratification of the board or the approval of the board.

49:14

Are you going to put something together and give it to us so we Sure. I can boards I can throw that I mean it's one

49:20

sentence really. Yeah. Um is are you um interested in

49:27

making an addition to that where um commissioners who currently retain the

49:33

seats on those committees have the um authority to um

49:41

to make the decision whether or not someone can take their spot. So like remember when you wanted solid waist and

49:47

I said no thank you I'd like to stay on that and you're like okay I'm good with that. So, are are we going to continue

49:53

that way as well? I would say no. Um I because at the time

49:58

I wasn't good with it. I was like I didn't have a choice. No. Um so I can't say I was good with it.

50:03

But um no, I would say it's still up to the chair. So I can put some together for next meeting.

50:09

So you want it to be that the chair has the ultimate authority to decide who

50:14

sits on every committee with the ratification of the board. With the ratification of the approval of

50:19

the board. So this goes back to pre January of last year when the chair had

50:28

full power to assign and unassign people on committees and we at the January

50:35

meeting last year said no we don't want that that it needed to be ratified by the board.

50:41

Uh, no. I thought that's No. If you listen to the meeting, we talked about um that and we and we

50:49

actually had a couple of different committees where we had discussion about changes, but we said no. You know, it

50:54

was up to the commit. It was up to the commissioner who was on that committee. The chair did not have the ultimate power and authority to say yes or no,

51:01

but the chair uh entertained commissioners asking or um requesting

51:08

that they could uh serve on a committee that another commissioner was already serving on.

51:13

Yeah. Our board our board chair was very specific. He said if a if a a commissioner is sitting on a board, they

51:22

have first dibs and then another person can come on, but they have the ultimate deciding factor. So like like Christine

51:29

said, she wanted um to be on road commission. John had a long-standing seat on road commission. He said, "No,

51:35

I'm going to stay on it." I wanted to stay on solid waste because I had been on it. You said you would like it. I said, "No, thank you." But then there

51:42

were also times when uh Commissioner Williams, she wanted to be on park and recck commission and I said, "Okay, I'm

51:48

on park and recck commission along with Commissioner Jensen." He didn't want to give up his seat. So then I allocated my

51:54

seat to Commissioner Williams, but I didn't have to do that. I could have said, "No, I'm sorry. I want to stay on

52:00

park and rec commission." So, it's making it more of a fluid and collaborative effort on who's deciding,

52:07

you know, or on who is uh sitting on which committee. And it makes it more

52:13

equitable because technically our board chair has no more power than any of us

52:21

board by written in statute. He can sign things. He has the tiebreak vote, but as

52:28

far as we are equal and so granting him the supreme authority, whether it be

52:34

just this year or dependent on who the chair is in the future, I have a really big problem with if we're supposed to

52:40

all be equals. And I would just add that I I I like the

52:46

way the rules and procedure are right now. So, um, although I I look forward to, you know, some kind of amendment to

52:53

this like what you're proposing, but I think the way that the rules of procedure are written right now are are

52:59

really quite clear. I think that if we actually followed them, we would be more efficient, but we're not following them

53:06

and we're doing this weird thing where we're defining all these committees and it's just I'm I'm fine with how we how

53:11

it's taking place right now, but it it is very efficient if you look at how it was put together. So,

53:17

so like for example, um Christine Williams, Commissioner Williams has um

53:24

is the liaison to the planning in zoning department, but she doesn't sit on the planning commission. Commissioner Jensen

53:30

does. So, you have two different commissioners handling one department where if you have this rules of proced,

53:37

you know, follow these rules of procedure, it's all going to be streamlined. And so like I sit on

53:43

conservation district but I don't sit on park and wreck but that you know so it's just it it's it's all over the place and

53:50

this is a way to stream that this is the way we should have been doing it all along but I I look forward to reading

53:56

what you have what you have coming forward too. So you're not willing to make an addition that

54:03

that the board makes the decisions makes the decisions not the board chair?

54:08

No. I I think one thing that all of this is

54:14

probably pointed out like I pointed out in 4.52 the other comments in there this is

54:21

bigger than one separate meeting that we should make a serious consideration of

54:29

picking another date sooner rather than later um of having a and list as a

54:36

special meeting where it's only this there's no other business discussed Let it be a work group. Um, and that's all

54:43

it's discussed and we can go through line by line at one of those. Are you talking about rules and rules of procedure? Absolutely. Okay.

54:50

I'd be for that. I would welcome that. I think that would be great. Excellent.

54:56

Probably never have to deal with this again. Till next year. Right. Till next year. But as it is right now,

55:03

it'll all stay to pretty much the what we just elected. Right.

55:09

So, are you talking about the committees, John? Yes. The committees to remain the same. Yeah. I I would think we just want to

55:16

make that statement and we as commissioners, we all now have our vice chair and chair assignments. We just all

55:21

agree to that and we do that. Otherwise, we say no, I want to make changes. And if you want to make changes, then within

55:26

your department, then you're going to do that. Um, but yeah, John, you could

55:32

Yeah, you could just say keep the same. Uh we will keep the same assignments

55:39

for this year until we get the

55:45

uh next meeting workman work meeting on

55:51

uh board assignment approvals or board assignments. I'm sorry. What?

55:57

Right. We're going to have another meeting no special meeting. The special meeting I was making reference to was just for

56:05

going through the policies and procedures. It has nothing to do with the um chair

56:10

and vice chair assignments nor committee positions. I misunderstood the way you saying that.

56:18

So all the all the assignments will stay the same as last year. Mhm.

56:27

And from my department's perspective, I'm perfectly fine with that. Same. Same.

56:33

Yep. Okay. All in favor? No. You want support? I'll support you.

56:41

All in favor? I I. Wow. Most passed. Yes.

56:48

That was two long ones in a row. Okay. I need a

56:54

motion to go out of regular meeting. No, I would move that we open the public

57:01

hearing for the 5-year recreation plan. Support. Okay. Roll call. Roll call. All

57:06

in favor. Well, we need a roll call.

57:13

Uh, Commissioner Johnson, yes. Commissioner Williams, sorry. Yes. Sorry. Commissioner

57:19

Vanhovven, yes. and Commissioner Jensen. Yes.

57:25

And Commissioner Melder, I was gonna say yes.

57:30

Okay. Public hearing open. Public hearing is open. Anybody would like to speak, please give your name and

57:38

where you're from. Please come up to

57:46

Oh, yeah. We still have We still have three minutes. Do we?

57:51

Yeah. Let's change the subject to summertime and boats and having fun and stuff like

57:58

that. That's much more fun to talk about. I don't think anybody.

58:04

Uh my name is Jeff Mipsky. I come from Nema Township. Um I am the president of

58:10

the Fairport Sport Fishing Association. Uh, oddly enough, uh, we just started

58:16

this this last October in the helps of improving access to the Big Bay Dak, the

58:23

islands down there. Um, the salmon the tremendous salmon fishery that we have.

58:29

You'll have to excuse me. I'm not very good at speaking in Oh, you're doing great. In public. So, uh, I I just I I I want

58:36

to thank you for the opportunity to hear some of the concerns that we have about

58:41

access to such a great area. Um, that it would help um our businesses out there

58:49

on that side of the county. Um it would uh allow a lot of other people to enjoy

58:58

the scenery and the resources that the state is involved with with fish

59:04

planting and things like that to uh keep us going and and and keep uh

59:12

see I lost what I'm saying there. Let me let me let me just hit some of my points

59:17

here. There are five boat launches on Big Bay Den, if you could call them boat launches.

59:24

Every boat launch is extremely been neglected um throughout the years. And

59:31

to get a decentsized boat with lake levels these days in there, no matter

59:36

what your use of the lake and resource is, is just about impossible. Fish Dam,

59:42

Olance, uh, Fyat, those are all really there is

59:48

I mean I would call them rough landings. We need better access to the billion dollar industry of salmon. Um, we have

59:56

large boats. We have upwards of 30 foot boats. There is no access to not only

1:00:03

launch and land a boat safely and properly, but then to have the

1:00:09

parking lot to park your rig. There's nothing like that out there. Um

1:00:14

the uh excuse me, the western shore of the bay, little bay Dak and whatnot has some

1:00:21

great facilities, but that's 26 miles by boat from Eskanaba or Gladstone. And then if

1:00:30

you come from the north, that's Neya and that's still 26 mile 23 to 26 miles.

1:00:36

That's fine if you can get there, but you're not always allowed a safe return back. We all know that the the lake can

1:00:43

get really rough at certain times. We had this experience last year. Um

1:00:50

I'm looking at the end of my thing. I have some other friends that are going to get right in here behind me. So I appreciate your time.

1:00:56

Thank you. Thank you.

1:01:10

Uh my name is Dylan Holesenamp. Uh I am the vice president of the Fairport

1:01:15

Fishing Association. I am from Masonville Township. I would also like to touch base on the non-access to the

1:01:22

public waterways of good the garden peninsula. There is no real usable

1:01:27

access for people that have any boats upwards of 23 feet and larger uh because

1:01:33

of water levels uh non-maintained accesses. Um primarily we are looking at

1:01:39

the developmental plan for Sack Bay. Sack Bay provides uh a majority of

1:01:45

natural protection from the weather. Uh not only would we like a better access,

1:01:52

a marina would be nice. uh a marina would probably fill up there every single summer just with the amount of

1:01:58

traffic that goes down there for the salmon fishing. Um one of the other reasons that we're looking for public

1:02:04

access, uh there's a great need for it as the only southern accesses that are

1:02:10

down on the Garden Peninsula are private and there is constant threats of those

1:02:15

private accesses being closed to public. Um,

1:02:21

uh, Jeff mentioned, you know, distance from the nearest port. We had an issue

1:02:26

last summer where we were in a tournament out there out off Fairport and there was a storm that storm that

1:02:32

blew up. 60 plus mph winds in a matter of seconds and there is no safe place to

1:02:39

hide from that that's near. Um, so that that's another point. um the volume of

1:02:46

people down there that in the summer cannot be supported by these private accesses

1:02:53

just simply can't. Um there's also not it's not just access

1:03:00

for fishermanmen access it's access for all recreational water sports activities

1:03:06

things in that nature. Um

1:03:14

and then also there is not one priority project to add public access to

1:03:19

waterways the developmental plan. Not one. And that is an area that could

1:03:24

greatly benefit from it. That's all I really have. Thank you.

1:03:31

Excuse me.

1:03:50

Chris Cooer, Wells Township. I'm the secretary of Fairport

1:03:56

and uh yeah, we need better public access down in Sack Bay or Fairport for

1:04:02

the things we like to do. boating, kaying, swimming. Access to the water is

1:04:09

tremendous down there. And there's not, like they said, not good access.

1:04:17

They touched most of the bases on that. I can't really cover anymore. That's about it. Thank you.

1:04:24

Thank you. Thank you.

1:04:40

Hi, my name's Alenhoffer and I am here to talk about the uh

1:04:45

problems that we've had. Last time I spoke to you people, it was actually

1:04:51

about uh trying to get a copy, an airfree copy of the parks and recreation

1:04:56

survey. And I got nothing but a runaround. And actually, you know, it

1:05:02

was very funny that some of the environmentalists and the anti-hunting groups actually got contacted and we got

1:05:11

nothing. I actually offered to print everything, to mail everything to we

1:05:16

actually had a banquet on May 17th and you come up with a date, a deadline date

1:05:24

of May 16th. How about that? And I offered to get them get the information to you the very next day and we got

1:05:32

nothing. We actually uh going over I was

1:05:38

at the meetings where they went over all the different questions and everything and all the people came the biggest

1:05:45

amount of people came from Eskanaba and actually the

1:05:52

the big thing was well in this plan here

1:05:57

it actually states 195 people a day go out to Delta County Forest according to

1:06:04

the survey. There's no way in heck 195

1:06:09

people go out there per day. It's the way the questions were a actually asked

1:06:16

to go to a certain point. Okay, this in itself me just going over it and

1:06:23

I'm not an expert. There's all kinds of errors in this thing. You people have a

1:06:28

lot of work to do yet and to consider the god darn general public. We worked

1:06:33

our butts off out there and I will take and go over that on the next three

1:06:38

minute session. But uh you people really have to take a look at what the hell

1:06:44

you're doing. Thank you.

1:06:56

Uh good evening commissioners. Heather Luk Wells Township and Delta County Parks Manager. Um, I just wanted to come

1:07:03

up here and um, first off say that I came in to the parks in June and this

1:07:10

was already going uh, with the five-year wck plan and it was very daunting. Um,

1:07:16

and there's a lot of work that I saw being done and I was inspired by it. Um, so I just wanted to thank and recognize

1:07:23

um the parks and recck commission members, the commissioners um because I know that there's 10 of you and um you

1:07:31

guys gave your heart and your energy and your spirit, your efforts and I saw the

1:07:36

work that was being done, the people that the commissioners that came to the parks and were using their own time to

1:07:43

um go out and survey the public went going to grocery stores, sitting at the fair, um going to schools and talking to

1:07:51

to the youth. And so I was really impressed by it. And I I believe that you really um and the commissioners that

1:07:58

aren't here really tried to capture the interests and um the suggestions of the

1:08:03

public of all the public. And so I uh wanted to recognize the parks and rec

1:08:09

board first and then I also wanted to recognize um the public that participated and just let it sink in

1:08:16

that um from what we heard from QPAD this uh five-year wck plan had the most

1:08:24

like the highest response of any county in the UP which is really incredible when you think about it. It is the

1:08:30

highest response of any recreation plan is Delta County's five-year rec plan.

1:08:35

So, I'm sorry. Um, you know, we still we might maybe we have more work to do, but we have a really great start and um I

1:08:42

think we're we're getting to where um we can actually start to to make changes

1:08:48

and I can assure you that as the parks manager, I am listening and we already have some changes that um are in the

1:08:54

works uh that you'll see come to fruition and we welcome more. So, um, I

1:08:59

just wanted to say that you guys all inspired me as a public. I feel that Delta County is a very special place and

1:09:06

it was shown with the the survey results. So, thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

1:09:26

Uh, good evening. My name is uh Josh Malpski and I'm a member of the Fairport

1:09:31

Sport Fishing Association. Um, one thing we tried to uh touch on

1:09:38

earlier was the reason we're kind of focused on Sack Bay is it's the closest

1:09:44

and literally the only uh staterun or county run facility in

1:09:52

that area. Uh, one of the biggest things that we enjoy about it, well, that we

1:09:58

really like to uh, harp on is it's all sand. So, it's not we not a whole lot of

1:10:05

blasting or major renovations would have to be done to make it actually viable for what we're trying to do. I mean down

1:10:13

fair down in Fairport and Fat and the whole area. We have a lot of support with like um the Stapletons and a whole

1:10:21

bunch of people down there that are really looking forward to having something done down there to help

1:10:26

everybody out. I mean the garden garden garden house and the uh mini mart down

1:10:33

there. All those businesses really thrive on our summertime fishing and

1:10:40

recreation down there. And if we can get a little help down there to uh try to move things along, that'd be really

1:10:45

great. We'd be really we'd really appreciate that. So, thank you much. Thank you.

1:11:06

Well, thanks for giving us the opportunity to comment on the five-year park plan. As we all know, he can't get

1:11:12

anything out in three minutes. So, I'm just going to go over some quick things, but now that I know who the chairman is

1:11:18

going to be from this point on, I'll get them a page by page description of the number and what I see. Uh, starting with

1:11:26

the planning process. State your name and where you're from. Oh, sorry about that. Rory Matson, um,

1:11:32

Cornell Township where I have my property. Um, starting with page three, uh, the

1:11:38

planning process. If you go to number five, six, seven, and eight, that was not totally done the way it's laid out

1:11:44

in a in a open meetings act format. Um, if you look at the parks themselves, I

1:11:51

think almost every single park except for one, I could be wrong a little bit, does not have the right acreage in in

1:11:58

the plan. Um, the other thing is Delta County Forest is basically, uh, Mr.

1:12:04

Edenhoffer has brought up, if you go to the one paragraph, it says, as indicated by survey data showing 195 daily users,

1:12:11

the county forest has become one of the most heavily utilized recreational facilities in the county system. This

1:12:17

priority reflects the growing demand for natural non-development recreation areas where people can experience the region's

1:12:24

forest ecosystems firsthand. If it just said 195 daily users, I would have

1:12:30

thought out of the 700, 195 said it, but the way this is worded and everything that's behind it

1:12:36

indicates that there's 195. So I called Ryan. He wasn't in charge during that

1:12:42

part. And just before that, it talks about cross-country skiing and snowshoeing. Also, a small game is

1:12:48

probably the biggest thing out there with the trails. The other thing is when this county got the grant and was

1:12:56

authorized, it was because they got extra points. So, the DNR sent me the worksheet on the point system and that

1:13:03

park doesn't have to totally be managed, but it has to be managed. And that was why Delta County got it for whitetail

1:13:09

deer, summer, and winter range. No ifs, ends, or buts about it. There has to be a big component of that and I don't see

1:13:14

it. Uh the other thing is uh wildlife unlimited in UP whitetails do have a

1:13:20

separate grant that was authorized by the county a letter from Phil Strom for the county and these groups right here

1:13:27

where it says additional public input and process page 54 this the stakeholder

1:13:33

groups were supposed to be for four to five months we heard UP tales and wildlife unlimited never ever were

1:13:40

invited to the table even though they were asked a gazillion times. Um, other things I see is invasive species control

1:13:47

and things which I'll do. If you go out to Fuller Park, the part of the reason that other area was being developed, and

1:13:54

I'm guessing uh people who've been out there to look in the center, the two

1:13:59

biggest plants from this big to big are invasive buckthornne and also poison

1:14:05

ivy. And I don't see one word in anything about addressing it in the action plan.

1:14:21

I'm Dana Vanen from Esanaba. I just want to remind this board that on May 16th,

1:14:29

2023 that the previous board at the recommendation of Rory Matson canceled

1:14:35

an almost $100,000 grant for political reasons for the Rapid River Falls. So,

1:14:41

I'd like you to keep that in mind when you're listening to him. Thank you.

1:14:52

Anyone else?

1:15:09

Bob Baron, Eskanaba Township. I was looking at this plan. Uh

1:15:16

uh the commissioner Williams has said the parks and recck commission is an

1:15:23

independent board. Uh that isn't what it says in this. So, uh per your

1:15:30

discussions about reorganizing the different things here, uh be good to explain what what it actually is. Uh if

1:15:37

it's different from what it says in here, it says the parks and recreation commission serve as the primary advisory

1:15:43

body for the county recreation matters. Uh I don't think it's an autonomous

1:15:49

group. I think the uh it's according to what you have in here. So it's

1:15:56

bothersome to me that these things what what is it? It's one or the other. Uh I

1:16:01

think it should be a board that serves at the pleasure of this board.

1:16:07

Also, when it comes to the u oh

1:16:14

just lost my train of thought there, but the commission u

1:16:20

the uh when you this parks and recck board had some excellent people on it and what we

1:16:28

saw was the total stripping of anybody with any knowledge of the park system. And then this park new park plan comes

1:16:36

up. So with the those that had prior knowledge, you just heard from a couple

1:16:41

gentlemen that were part of working in this and they were on that committee, they were removed and the commission was

1:16:47

stripped of any people who had any background. So unfortunately what you have here is uh you put together a plan

1:16:55

without that solid knowledge that was there. And so it it uh we talk about

1:17:01

transparency. when you throw away good solid knowledge, it's for a reason and it was deliberate to get rid of those

1:17:08

individuals. So I this whole plan I think is lacking that behind it and it

1:17:13

needs to have that but it it doesn't. So uh there was a there was a good amount

1:17:19

of work that was done. It was thrown out. Now we're going to start over. Um I don't trust this. I'm concerned about

1:17:26

there being uh language in here that's going to come after the private sector, private land owners, and uh uh the

1:17:35

history is with me. 50 plus years ago, the EPA was started by a sentence in a

1:17:40

bill. That behemoth is what we have today. And is the c is the county going

1:17:47

to be reaching out into the private sector? Uh I'm concerned about the

1:17:52

language because words smith stick things in there and plus when you eliminate the people who had the

1:17:58

experience to be able to guide this it casts a lot of doubt in your process.

1:18:03

Thank you.

1:18:16

Well, I'm Sheree Peterson and I am the host for Fuller Campground and I would like to say that I felt very welcomed

1:18:23

and very comfortable. I used to be a camper for 12 years there a seasonal and

1:18:29

Heather is doing a fantastic job. She is learning. She is willing to learn and we

1:18:35

have many changes. We had many changes when Pat was there and we plan to move

1:18:42

forward in a positive direction. We are strong women. We know what we want and

1:18:48

we need change. The change is great. It's warm. It's welcoming. You can go on

1:18:54

there and read anything that has been posted about our park and it is fabulous. Do we have problems? Yes, we

1:19:01

have problems because they've been ignored for years. So give Heather a chance.

1:19:08

Okay. This is not very fun when I see somebody being bashed for her kindness

1:19:14

and her hard work. And Christine as well. Okay. Anybody that's come out to

1:19:19

the park has a opinion and they have listened and things are changing. But

1:19:25

you can't change something overnight. So give her a chance. Thank you. Thank you,

1:19:37

Whitney Maloney, Gladstone. I just want to take this opportunity to remind people that the parks and wreck uh

1:19:43

committee that is also an open meeting. So, this isn't this is like the very last step in this process and I was able

1:19:50

to attend one of those meetings last uh late last year and I was absolutely floored by what I saw and the work that

1:19:55

was done. Um I had my hand in a lot of different boards and meetings. um one of the bestr run meetings that I've ever

1:20:01

witnessed. And I encourage those of you who really have a vested interest in

1:20:07

this five-year plan to attend those meetings. There's public comment there that you can talk about. And these folks

1:20:13

are so interested in taking opinion from the public and really serving this

1:20:19

community and they want to hear from you. They re they really really want that. So, I just want to take this time to remind people that that's also

1:20:26

another meeting that you can attend to sort of direct the board and let them know what this community wants because I

1:20:32

would love a marina down at Fairport. That sounds awesome. Thank you.

1:20:43

Any more on the public hearing? Any more

1:20:49

discussion on the public hearing?

1:21:02

Joe Kaplan, Ford River Township. The Ford River Township went through the

1:21:07

planning process back in 2022 and adopted a recreation plan on January

1:21:14

10th, 2022. And when that happened, I'm going to

1:21:20

read how Fuller Park was represented in our township where OB Fuller Park is

1:21:25

located, how it was re represented in the Ford River Township Recreation Plan. This regional park is located in the

1:21:32

southeast edge of the township. It is positioned along Lake Michigan at the mouth of the Bark River. It is managed

1:21:38

by Delta County and hosts a day use area and a campground. The day use area is a

1:21:43

gravel lot with a worn picnic table. It is located on the west side of M35. One

1:21:49

of the most frequent community survey comments requested the local community be granted access to the picnic area,

1:21:56

boat launch, playground, and beachfront at OB Fuller Park. This is not a request

1:22:03

the county is willing to entertain as they do not have the budget to improve facilities and maintain a campground and

1:22:09

day use area along the lake. This is the only expansive lakefront area open to the public within Ford River Township.

1:22:16

That struck me as very unusual. I've been associated with five wreck plans

1:22:21

and I've served as the chair for one of them when I was in Eskanaba and also up in the Kiwina and I wrote the plan

1:22:28

person from Cupad and asked her about that specifically. Um,

1:22:35

I tried talking with the local county park manager to see if the township could apply for a joint grant to develop

1:22:41

more comprehensive day use facilities along the lake as their park offers the only real beach access in the community.

1:22:48

And he said, "No way." And John and Pat, you were on the board

1:22:54

at that time and you were the laid on Pat and you allowed no day use. If you

1:23:01

weren't a paying customer at OB Fuller Park, you couldn't get access to the lake. That was absolutely shameful. And

1:23:08

boy, that struck something that some of you uh rest in your chairs today because

1:23:14

of that controversy. And that he was Rory Matson. It was not Steve Wary.

1:23:20

or have we come we've come very far and I see at least what seven or seven eight gentlemen out there that are asking for

1:23:28

waterfront access down on the garden. I think that that should be incorporated.

1:23:33

The last time that this county had adopted a 5-year rec plan was way back

1:23:38

in 2016 and the the um purchase of 1400 acres at

1:23:46

Cornell was a footnote in that plan. But that is where this county has put most

1:23:51

of its efforts in the last 10 years because we've been out of compliance with our rec plan since 2020.

1:23:59

Everything's gone into Cornell and we know who owns most of the roads and access sites at Cornell. Thank you very

1:24:04

much.

1:24:13

Anyone else on public hearing? Anyone

1:24:19

else on public hearing? Final and last time. Anybody else in

1:24:25

public hearing? Was that open to call in or No. No.

1:24:31

Okay. Thank you. No, because we only have agenda items and public comment at the end. Got it. Thank you.

1:24:36

Okay. That time I need a I would move that we close the public

1:24:42

hearing. Support. All in favor? I. Anybody opposed? Motion passed. And

1:24:48

I'd just like to say thank you to everyone who showed up and gave input tonight. Thank you. Thank you.

1:24:55

Okay. Number five, approval of the minutes of previous meeting county board

1:25:02

minutes of 1216, 2025.

1:25:09

I would make a motion to approve the county board meetings for December 16th, 2025.

1:25:16

Support. Okay. All in favor? I. Anybody opposed? Motion passed. Number

1:25:22

six, approval of the agenda. Move to approve. Support.

1:25:29

All in favor? I. I. Anybody oppose? Motion pass.

1:25:35

Number seven, presentation of written communications received and forwarded.

1:25:42

Move to place on file support. Favor.

1:25:47

I. Anybody opposed? Motion pass.

1:25:52

Number eight, reports of standing statuto special meetings and others.

1:26:01

None. Number nine, public comment on agenda items.

1:26:08

Public comment on agenda items. Please state your name. Uh Whitney Maloney Gladstone. This is

1:26:16

actually comically app propo to this moment, but um in the rules and procedures 7.3 under general public

1:26:22

comment at the bottom. Um B says, "If an individual wishes to address the board,

1:26:27

the individual's name must be placed on the signup list available from the county clerk. speakers will be called in

1:26:33

order of signup. So, I just want to point out that that's not I know

1:26:38

sometimes there is a signup sheet for this particular public comment, but this specifically says general public

1:26:43

comment. So, I just wanted to point out that that's an inconsistency and perhaps a barrier for people to

1:26:48

engage in public comment. So, either No, there is one there has there was one of them, right? So, like I looked for like

1:26:55

something when I got here and then I was confused. So, either like it was up at the podium. we shouldn't be having dialogue back on.

1:27:01

Right. So, I just wanted to point out that that's what the rules and pro procedures say. So, if that is the way that this board wants that to happen.

1:27:08

Um, I would just suggest making it very easily identifiable to for those of us who want to give comments so we're not

1:27:14

kind of coming in here and wondering what to do, where to go, how to sign up, just that kind of thing. I just wanted to point it out. Thank you.

1:27:20

I did announce it several times. Stop talking.

1:27:26

Any other public comment? Any other public comment on agenda items?

1:27:33

And there's no remote public comment. There is no remote. Seeing none, no, we will move on.

1:27:38

There is a signup sheet though. Committee reports.

1:27:43

Administrator's report. Signed up. Thank you. Um, chief assistant

1:27:49

prosecuting attorney Beth Wickwire has resigned effective December 31st, 2025.

1:27:55

She requested that I read a statement to the board of commissioners. Um, Commissioner Melner, Vice Chairwoman

1:28:03

Vanenhovven, and Commissioners uh, or I'm sorry, Chairman Melner, Vice Chairwoman Vanenhovven, and

1:28:10

Commissioners Jensen, Johnson, and Williams. As you know, my employment with the Delta County Prosecutor's

1:28:15

Office ended on December 31st, 2025. My husband received a promotion to a new

1:28:20

position in St. Paul, Minnesota, so we will be moving in the near future. My last day with the prosecutor's office

1:28:26

came quickly and unexpectedly. I was hoping to continue to work into the new year. Although I did not have the chance

1:28:33

to address the board in person, I wanted to make sure that you all know how much I have enjoyed working with and for the

1:28:39

board of commissioner the board of commissioners over the past several years. It has been a privilege to work

1:28:46

with both the board and prosecutor Wickman to serve the people of Delta County. I am a native a native of Iron

1:28:53

County. So I have always known that the UP is a special place. However, until I work here until I worked here as a

1:29:00

public servant in Delta County, I did not fully realize or appreciate the level of commitment, intelligence,

1:29:06

authenticity, dedication, kindness, patriotism, and work ethic that is alive and well in

1:29:13

the Upper Peninsula. Delta County is truly an exceptional place and it has been a privilege and honor to work here

1:29:19

over the past several years. I am grateful to each of you for helping me grow and learn as both an individual and

1:29:26

as an attorney. Delta County will always hold a special place in my heart and I look forward to continuing to follow its

1:29:32

progress and growth under your leadership. Sincerely, Beth Wickmire. Wickwire.

1:29:41

um the new time sheet software for employees through dynamic HR. Just to give a quick update to the board, uh

1:29:47

within the next couple of weeks, administration will be working with the department heads and employees regarding

1:29:52

their time entry into the new software system. Uh it's called solve. Um we're

1:29:58

making great strides on getting everything set up with them, getting them county documents that they need um

1:30:05

so that we are ready for this switch over. The next payroll that's done will be done through dynamic HR. Um, if

1:30:12

employees have questions, they know to contact administration and we've sent out notices to them and set up trainings

1:30:18

for them as well. Um, with the new software, the MIDC Iron County Defenders

1:30:24

Office, we've officially begun our partnership with Iron County in our indigent defense. Our lead defense

1:30:30

attorney, Daryl Waters, has been in contact with our contracted attorneys and court personnel. has begun handling

1:30:36

all administrative duties regarding MIDC. The changeover was successful and I want to give a special thank you to

1:30:44

attorney Sarah McGregor who stepped in and she helped bridge that gap for us until attorney Waters took over.

1:30:50

Foyer requests. Each year our FOYA requests have been steadily increasing. We've ended 2025 with 294 total requests

1:30:59

to administration. This is an all-time high. Uh this does include requests that

1:31:04

have went straight to the prosecutor's office, sheriff's department, or dispatch center with the exception of

1:31:10

some requests earlier in the year that were not logged directly with administration.

1:31:15

And finally, our snowstorm that we had on December 29th, 2025, um we received a significant snow event,

1:31:23

one that we haven't had in quite some time. Uh during this event, over 200 residents were without power. And I want

1:31:30

to thank um all the linemen who were working during that time and getting that up and running. Um I believe it was

1:31:36

two days and all power was restored here for Delta County residents. I also want to give a special thanks to our

1:31:43

emergency manager Paul Guyire. Um he was continuing to moni monitor those issues,

1:31:48

give updates and um in contact with other departments and entities to make

1:31:54

sure that there were no requests for warming shelters during that time. Also

1:31:59

want to thank Corey Schroeder, who's our maintenance director, and his crew for the removal of the snow, and our ops um

1:32:07

our ops uh employees out at the airport. Uh they did a great job in keeping the

1:32:12

runway clear and our airport open as much as it could be um during that time.

1:32:18

Uh and there were many canceled flights and and different schedule barriers that they had to work with and they did a

1:32:23

phenomenal job at that. Um, and I also want to thank our county road commission and our city um, road crew for the work

1:32:31

that they did on clearing that snow. Um, and our road commission offering special services for EMS during that time to get

1:32:38

to people on the outskirts of the county that roads weren't open. Um, they they

1:32:43

did have a couple of those that they assisted with and we were able to get to those residents for those uh,

1:32:49

individuals who needed the EMS services. So, I want to give a special thank you to them, too. Um I think uh all the

1:32:57

county departments worked really well together during that time. Um kept everybody as safe as we possibly could.

1:33:03

Um and so uh it was a really good representation of the leadership we have in Delta County and the collabor

1:33:09

collaborative work that they do together in making sure behind the scenes that the county is functioning. Thank you.

1:33:16

Thank you. Can I get a motion to put it on file?

1:33:22

I'll move that we place the administrator's report on file. Support. All in favor?

1:33:28

I I motion passed. Uh I

1:33:35

Nancy did come up with the uh agenda here. Um

1:33:40

the signin sheet. Signin sheet. Signin sheet. Uh

1:33:45

agenda items. Do you Yes. On agenda. On the agenda items. Well, that we're already past that.

1:33:51

Yeah, I know. Well, he missed it. Yeah, but we do have one. So,

1:33:57

Oh, no. Do you want to go back and public comment? You have to have it

1:34:03

correctly a mistake. Yep. Peter Strum,

1:34:08

he's gone. Terry Winnick, did you want to speak for a different

1:34:15

Okay. And Alton Hoffford, did you want to speak on

1:34:20

public comment? You signed up on public comments.

1:34:27

Agenda items. Part of the agenda items. It's for agenda items. Is only for agenda items.

1:34:33

Correct.

1:34:50

The agenda item once again was the two copies here.

1:34:57

They're different. You should have them on file from past years, but I just wanted to renew it so

1:35:04

it wouldn't be hard for you to find. But again, uh my name's Alenhoffer.

1:35:10

I actually wasn't a grantee for the uh agenda item

1:35:16

actual grant. What's the agenda item? Pardon? What's the agenda item you're talking about?

1:35:21

It is actually on the recreation plan. But that was during the public hearing public hearing. That was public hearing

1:35:28

only. Okay, then I'll wait till the end. Okay. Okay. Okay. Thank you anyway.

1:35:33

And just for clarification, um, Terry Wanik, did you want to talk about

1:35:40

the agenda item? It's another item coming up later. Yes, he's on the agenda for new business.

1:35:46

So he can So he doesn't want to give public comment on item. No,

1:35:52

he'll do it under his section. Oh, Rory was also on the agenda for

1:36:00

uh public com or uh public comment on the agenda items.

1:36:08

Okay. Okay, we got that one.

1:36:14

Uh number two, finance minutes of 12625.

1:36:19

Um these are the corrected minutes from 121625.

1:36:25

Um there was a request um from the parks. Was that something that was still

1:36:30

going to come forward or they doing that in between? No. Tracy had told me the corrected minutes were because she normally

1:36:35

highlights portions in the minutes that are brought forward for motion um action

1:36:41

items to the board. And under new business um number seven it was not

1:36:48

highlighted. So she wanted to correct that and put them. So there's nothing there's no error in what was put in the

1:36:54

minute. It's just highlighted. It's just highlighted. It's highlighted. Okay. So um one of the items was working with

1:37:02

um dispatch and UPAD. Um it's part of one of their um larger pro projects and

1:37:10

they will work that through Tyler Technologies. um

1:37:15

item. We will cover the next one which was the emergency management coordinator salary. That'll be number seven on your

1:37:21

agenda. And the other item was at the airport

1:37:27

um train which is the HVAC company will actually be

1:37:34

changing they're going to be doing a control upgrade to the current system. Uh that's one where it'll allow better

1:37:41

flexibility for both our employees to be able to do stuff not just physically there but remotely but also for train to

1:37:48

be able to troubleshoot remotely without us having to pay for a service call. So

1:37:54

there okay I get a motion put on file.

1:38:01

So moved. All in favor? I

1:38:06

Anybody opposed? Motion passed. Departmental updates. Any departmental

1:38:11

updates? Any departmental updates? Seeing none,

1:38:18

we will move on to new business and payment of the bills.

1:38:26

I have examined all claims presented and recommend payment of the following and that the county clerk be directed to

1:38:31

issue orders on the county treasur to the claimants for the amounts allowed. We have a total report of claims of

1:38:37

2,136,23758.

1:38:43

I would move that we pay our bills. Support. Okay. Can I get roll call?

1:38:50

Commissioner Johnson? Yes. Commissioner Williams? Yes. Commissioner Van Hovind? Yes. Commissioner Jensen?

1:38:56

Yes. And Commissioner Melner? Yes. Okay. Our bills are paid for.

1:39:02

Let's see. Number two, set 2026

1:39:08

meeting dates. Anybody have a problem with the meeting

1:39:14

dates that are out there? We I'll make a motion that we approve the meeting dates as they are presented

1:39:21

to us. Support. All in favor? We're going to have you gonna have a

1:39:28

discussion. Sorry, we didn't have discussion. Sorry. I was going to ask, is that one of those that we wanted to look at the

1:39:35

date before after one of the statutory meetings like we have in the past or we

1:39:40

going to just maintain that on here and if we determine when it gets

1:39:46

closer and there's no business that needs to be taken care of, we'll just I'm okay crossing that bridge when we get there.

1:39:51

Yeah. Yep. Same here. Any other discussion?

1:39:57

We got a motion. We had discussion. All in favor? I

1:40:02

I. Anybody oppose? Motion pass.

1:40:09

Okay. Number three, 2026 contract Davis Wick

1:40:14

Surveyors. We have Mr. Wanik here so he can he can approach and address the board on this

1:40:20

um agenda item for you.

1:40:27

Uh Terry Wanick, county surveyor. Just going to wrap up uh let let you know where we're at with the project. Uh last

1:40:34

year was the final year of monumentation in the county. Um to date, 4,418

1:40:41

corners were set, leaving 402 corners left in the county to be set. Uh the

1:40:47

project was set to be a 20-year project, and we were in year 32. So we obviously

1:40:54

overshot the uh wilderness factor of the UP. Uh secondly, because we are finished

1:41:00

with monumentation, we're moving on to the perpetual maintenance portion of the program. And what that allows us to do

1:41:07

is to revisit the corners that we did back like starting in 1993 and make sure

1:41:12

that they're still under preservation and redo anything that needs to be fixed

1:41:18

on them. Uh good news on that is uh we're off to a good start. We've got 22 of the 107 that are scheduled for 26

1:41:25

already done and every monument has been there. We have lost a few trees and a few signposts, but the monuments are all

1:41:31

there. So, 32 years and we haven't lost one yet, at least as of this report. So,

1:41:36

it's good to know. Uh just just you know that we're moving on and uh the the part of the way the plan is to work is we're

1:41:43

going to revisit them as the year we did them. So, this year we're doing everything we did in 93. Next year we'll

1:41:49

do everything we did in 94 and we'll just keep moving on. So it'll be 32 years before we get well I'll be long

1:41:54

gone in 32 years but 32 weeks from now that part of the project will be visiting what we did this year. So

1:42:00

thank you question. Quick quick question Mr. Ron. Yeah quick question.

1:42:07

Are you expected to go faster now that we kind of know where everything is or is this the same process? It's going to go faster and we'll be

1:42:13

able to get more done per year. So 31 years instead of 32. Uh, no. I think it's going to go a lot quicker.

1:42:19

All right. Awesome. I didn't want to set for things that were set in the 1850s.

1:42:24

So, Sure. Yeah. I mean, all that time goes by, you don't find much of original evidence. So, there there's a lot of mathematics and

1:42:30

things to procedures to put them back in place, but you still have to go look. You never know. I mean, we did find some

1:42:36

original trees from the 1850s that were described. So, there's about 10 in the county that I'm aware of.

1:42:42

So, how long do you anticipate it would take now that everything's all set? I mean, just ballpark.

1:42:47

Uh, well, I can tell you we we scheduled 107 corners for this coming year, and I

1:42:54

know we're gonna have because of budget, I know we're going to do a lot more than that. We're probably going to be in a 130s, 140s. Uh, again, we don't have as

1:43:01

much money invested into monuments and signs and those things. So, it allows us more money to visit more corners.

1:43:08

Nice work. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Okay, I need a motion to accept the

1:43:14

contract. I will make the motion to accept the 2026 contract uh from Davis and Wanik

1:43:24

support for the remonumentation plan. I was just trying to look up the words. So, sorry.

1:43:32

Still support. You got support. Any discussion?

1:43:37

All in favor? I. Anybody opposed? Motion passed.

1:43:43

Number four, Irving transfer request to fill juvenile diversion

1:43:51

uh keys working position.

1:43:59

Approval of request to fill support. All in favor?

1:44:04

I. Anybody opposed? Motion pass.

1:44:10

Number five, retirement of uh M. Harris Hans.

1:44:15

Hansen, I'm sorry. Uh request for a lump sum payout.

1:44:24

Approval, support. All in favor and a thank you.

1:44:31

Yes, please. Okay, thank you. All in favor? I.

1:44:37

Motion passed. Number six, resignation of uh Wickman

1:44:42

Wire Meyer. Wire wire. Wire

1:44:47

request for a lump sum payout and to fill chief assistant prosecuting attorney.

1:44:52

I don't want to, but I will. I'll make the motion and I'll support and send a a thank you

1:45:01

note as well. Yeah. favor. I I

1:45:07

Okay, anybody opposed? Motion pass. Emergency management coordinator salary.

1:45:15

I'm going to make the motion that we offer a base salary of 72,000 to our

1:45:21

emergency management coordinator, uh, Paul Guyire.

1:45:46

Yeah, we have to look something up. And we I mean him because I'm not connected

1:45:51

to the internet and can't seem to get this thing connected to the internet. So, and I have two other devices I have

1:45:56

to deal with. So, I'm not going to play with it anymore.

1:46:20

I see. No, I was I was looking. Oh, I'm sorry. Yeah.

1:46:31

Um, my what are you looking for? Maybe I can help you. We We had stuff. I was trying to pull

1:46:37

back up in finance meeting where we had re stuff and what we already knew we could afford.

1:46:43

It's in the agenda what you can afford and it's also from

1:46:48

the finance meeting where um our emergency manager provided you with the

1:46:54

details based on That's the one I'm looking for though. Yeah, we're just trying to figure out whether because this is your motion is

1:47:01

for more than what the finance committee has recommended. So, we're just looking up to see whether there was flexibility

1:47:08

in that budget to allow for that. Administrator can tell us.

1:47:14

Do you know up top? Well, there was um the spreadsheet. it's in your packet that the controller had

1:47:22

done and she put two different scenarios with the cost of what we could put in

1:47:28

the budget. Um, and it came out of finance was recommended um for the 69

1:47:34

base salary which then would be subject to the cola increase as well for January 1.

1:47:39

Right. And the uh recommendation was from administration that we choose the

1:47:46

69 whatever it was. I don't know if there was some change, but it was 69, not the 72. 69 even plus the cola increase.

1:47:53

There you go. Thank you. Correct. Somebody would support it for

1:47:58

discussion. I would be able to explain why I made the motion for 72. I'll support it for discussion.

1:48:04

Thank you. Discussion. Okay. So um when this was brought uh

1:48:10

forward to the me um regarding the meeting minutes at the last meeting, I noticed that um this was something that

1:48:16

was going to be on the agenda. And what I went through was um emergency manager

1:48:21

coord uh our emergency manager's letter that he had written um regarding the um

1:48:27

price difference or the salary differences. And what I noticed was um the January 1, 2026 Delta salary

1:48:35

differential from other region 8 full-time EM programs. And what it was based on was county population. However,

1:48:42

when I did further analysis because I dug deep into the differential of the

1:48:48

population, we have Monomin of a population of 24,000 and their EM gets

1:48:54

73206. Uh H Hotton and Kiwina has 39,200

1:49:00

population. Their EM gets 74. Delta County is in the middle of those two

1:49:05

closer to H Hotton and Kiwina at a um population of 37 and our EM currently

1:49:11

makes 65. So what I did was not only take the population out of it, I looked

1:49:18

at the square mileage that our EM has to coordinate for coverage and I found it

1:49:24

uh actually more comparable to the Marquette County which was at 84011.

1:49:31

I also looked at the amount of um the amount of different uh uh situation

1:49:40

scenarios that our EM handles versus the other county being that we have an EAS

1:49:45

airport that is closer to the water than any other of the county airports um that

1:49:51

are located within Marquette, H Hotton, and Monomony. Our EM is responsible for the water rescue plan formulation. He

1:49:58

did that this year. He also started um and did a full first year of

1:50:04

coordination with the UP State Fairgrounds for their event that they have with the UP State Fair every year.

1:50:10

And there were other things as well that he does on top of um these other

1:50:16

counties that make substantially higher amounts than what um the 69,000 was

1:50:22

recommended. I also spoke with several of the people that I sit on with EOCC

1:50:28

with our EM emergency operations coordination and they have said that the Delta County um EOC and LAPC are the

1:50:37

well most well attended from any local counties in comparison H Hotton Kiwana

1:50:42

Monomin and Marquette and therefore I feel he is worth the $72,000

1:50:50

it is budgetable I did speak to our admin administrator about the increase and she said it was doable and that's

1:50:56

why I recommend and made the motion for 72,000 versus the 69,000 that was

1:51:02

recommended from the finance committee and that's all I have. So the reason for the 69,000 other it's

1:51:08

not about the person it's about the position and to make those positions equitable that that's not dispute that

1:51:15

our emergency manager isn't worth it. He's he's shown that time and again in spades. um when you want to bring in

1:51:22

like Marquette Monomony and you want to look at that position, you also have to consider in there what's her millage

1:51:28

rates at and they're substantially more than what ours is to work with. So I I have the floor. Hold on. They're

1:51:34

not comparable. They are different. Um, when we looked at that, one of the

1:51:40

things at the 69 when you added the current cola in, it comes out to 715,

1:51:48

which is eaten up by insurance rates. Everything's eaten up by insurance rates. I mean, I don't care what job

1:51:54

you're in. Well, you're giving reasons. I'm giving rebuttals. Go ahead. I'm just showing you where the reality

1:52:00

of the uh Well, my thing's reality, too.

1:52:06

question. Um, what's the job description like between Monomin, Marquette, H Hotton? Do

1:52:15

they have the similar responsibilities? Does one get paid more because they have more responsibilities? Do we know that?

1:52:21

I don't know that off the top of my head. I don't recall. I would I would want to know that information like does Monomony

1:52:28

rope in like he also sweeps the floor or something like does he have more duties

1:52:33

than um what our EM has um or does he have less duties? One thing I do know is

1:52:39

the from when the EM first came out and came online um the responsibilities have

1:52:47

steadily increased over years. It's not one where okay, yep, we don't do that anymore. Let's get rid of it. It's

1:52:53

actually increased over time just as you know natural disasters and threats you

1:52:59

know worldwide come in. I I think it's important too at the finance committee meeting when we talked

1:53:05

with him about this position he did indicate that you know there are things that he does that he just you know he

1:53:12

wants to do but he's not asking to be compensated for those. he's compensated for the work that he has to do the

1:53:18

requirements of the position um but that he does do above and beyond uh the what

1:53:24

the position is requiring but that's not what we were compensating.

1:53:29

It does say that um in his letter um that a counterpoint in the upper

1:53:35

peninsula from Gogg County conducted a wage study for the purpose of negotiations for her position. I'd like

1:53:41

to see that wage study.

1:53:48

Another question if I may. Um, if we have So, we're looking at 715 correct

1:53:53

with cola. Um, are you going without cola or I'm doing the base. This This was a

1:53:59

recommendation of 69 base. I'm doing a recommend I'm my motion is 72 base

1:54:06

on top of that.

1:54:12

So, we're looking at more like 75. when I did my when I did my analysis based on

1:54:19

uh square mileage based on um what and to you know what each uh county has as

1:54:26

far as like um you know potential natural disasters, man-made disasters,

1:54:32

um things that I that I see when I go into my EOC meetings. Um you know, the

1:54:37

different workings of townships with township fire departments, the Red Cross. Um, I did I did a thorough

1:54:44

research into this and that's why I'm I'm very um comfortable offering this

1:54:50

72,000 because um you know I don't know

1:54:56

if another county has the person sweep the floors. But what I do know is our EM

1:55:04

goes above and beyond. So I, you know, in his role. So, I would

1:55:12

like to see that compensation at 72,000 a piece. And I contacted our

1:55:17

administrator and she says it is it isn't within the budget to do so.

1:55:27

Any more discussion? So to answer your question, it was um

1:55:34

746. Okay. If it bases 72 with the current

1:55:40

that was 3.7 I think we used not I would like to see those job

1:55:46

descriptions or at least have finance look at the job descriptions make sure we're comparing apples to apples.

1:55:54

There's a motion on the floor support.

1:56:04

Any more discussion?

1:56:11

Can we do a roll call vote? Yes, we can.

1:56:17

There's quite a bit. Discussion. Commissioner Johnson?

1:56:23

No. Commissioner Williams? No. Commissioner Vanenhovven? Yes.

1:56:29

Commissioner Jensen? No. And Chair Melner,

1:56:35

no. I would make a motion to set the salary

1:56:41

of the emergency um why can't I even think about it right

1:56:46

now? But um emergency manager uh at 69,000 as recommended from the finance

1:56:52

committee support. Any discussion? I really wish we could

1:56:58

have tabled it so we could have discussed it and saw those job descriptions. Yeah, he wanted to see the job

1:57:03

descriptions. I wanted to see the wage study. What?

1:57:09

That's all. Okay,

1:57:14

do another vote. Johnson, no.

1:57:20

Williams, yes. Van Genhovven, no. Jensen,

1:57:25

yes. and Milner. No, I want to see.

1:57:33

Motion to table until we get further information.

1:57:38

Favor. I I Anybody oppose? Motion pass.

1:57:49

Okay. Number eight.

1:57:57

We uh recepting switch and all paid to

1:58:03

BS ANA.

1:58:13

I would make a motion to accept the contract with BSNA for county receiving

1:58:18

services support. Okay. Any discussion? Yes.

1:58:24

I do have discussion. Uh the contract covers in my opinion um there should be four four things that are very clearly

1:58:31

outlined in a contract. One is the terms. One is the termination um ability to terminate and what that entails and

1:58:39

then indemnicate indemnification which is all in there. The one thing that I have an issue with is the dispute

1:58:44

resolution. Typically, the dispute resolution would cover that or state

1:58:50

that it's going to be handled within the state of Michigan and specifically within Delta County. Um, this does not.

1:58:57

This dispute resolution, it actually references uh disputes or

1:59:02

claims arising under this addendum, but there's no comment or there's no there's

1:59:08

nothing about dispute resolution. So, I had actually um

1:59:13

put together something that could be added and I don't know whether or not uh we have options here, but that would be

1:59:20

my comment about this agreement that I don't think there's a dispute resolution that is um keeping it within the state

1:59:26

of Michigan. So, we could end up if we have a dispute, we could end up with Stripe somewhere in Florida having to

1:59:32

navigate a dispute and I don't think we want to do that. So um what I had come

1:59:37

up with is this agreement shall be governed by and construed in accordance with the laws of the state of Michigan

1:59:43

without regard to its conflict of law principles and the parties agree that any action suit or proceeding arising

1:59:50

out of this relationship out of relating to this agreement shall be brought exclusively in the state courts located

1:59:57

in Delta County, Michigan. Each party irrevocably submits to the personal jurisdiction of such courts and waves

2:00:03

any objection to venue or forum including any claim of inconvenience

2:00:08

forum. So they can't say, "Oh, it's an inconvenience for me to have to come to Delta County. Too bad you're going to come to Delta County to deal with any

2:00:15

sort of dispute. It would be an inconvenience for us if we end up having to go to Florida." You know, so this is

2:00:20

just typical language that's in a con typically in a contract and I just felt it was missing from this contract.

2:00:27

That's my comment. Any more discussion? I was going to ask what's our suspense

2:00:33

time on that. I believe that the contract is only valid for the month of January um until

2:00:41

the end of January. So, if it was tabled to see if that's something that they would allow, we'd have to bring it back

2:00:47

for the January 20th meeting.

2:00:53

Well, I will I mean I'll vote in favor of it, but I just think that in the future all contracts need to have a

2:00:59

dispute resolution that keeps us in the state of Michigan. Uh if we can. So, it would just it would just be something

2:01:06

that we should think about in the future. I' I'd be okay voting no and then just taking care of I mean, if that puts the

2:01:11

ball on our court, excellent. Um, but I'd also like legal to look at it and kind of give us their opinion when

2:01:19

we kind of have a little bit more time to get briefed by her. Okay.

2:01:28

So, I could remove my motion to uh accept and uh make a mo if someone who

2:01:33

supported I don't know who it was who supported my motion. So,

2:01:39

I didn't catch who supported it. I'm sorry. Oh, did we have a motion? Yeah, I made a motion. She had a She made a motion, but

2:01:45

I didn't catch who second. I'll resend the support. Then I would make a motion.

2:01:50

Make a motion. I wasn't sure, but I'll I'll resend it. And then we're make a motion to table so that we can um

2:01:58

uh identify whether or not we can um adjust the dispute resolution language.

2:02:05

Support. All in favor? I. Anybody oppose? Motion passed.

2:02:16

Number nine, Foya appeal number 25 dash

2:02:21

278

2:02:35

278 278 27

2:02:44

Well, I would make a motion to uphold the denial um on

2:02:50

FOYA request uh 25278

2:02:57

and and we'll wait till discussion. That was support.

2:03:02

Any discussion? Yeah, I was going to say that I did reach out to our prosecuting attorney and ask some questions about um

2:03:10

how the court forms are ingested into the software that the prosecutor uses.

2:03:17

And I have a much better understanding of um why the information isn't taken

2:03:23

from these forms and just ingested right into the data fields in the prosecutor's um software. and and so I'm comfortable

2:03:31

with um uh acknowledging that this information just simply does not uh

2:03:36

exist in their data structure. Any more discussion?

2:03:44

All in favor? I. Anybody opposed? Motion passed.

2:03:49

Number 10, foyer appeal number 25-286.

2:03:59

This one I have a a structural question on. Um, so our rules of procedure do not

2:04:05

allow for same day agenda items being added to our agenda. So, I'm I guess I'm

2:04:10

asking the question why this is on our agenda for tonight since it looks like it was received on January 6th uh today

2:04:18

at 1:40 a.m. So, why isn't it on the next month or next meeting?

2:04:23

The actual FOYA appeal was received December either 30th or 31st. We

2:04:29

received um communication from the original requesttor

2:04:35

that was forwarded on it was received this morning early this morning and that was forwarded on to the board before the

2:04:41

meeting. So that's why I felt like it was coming in this morning at 1:40 but it actually came in earlier on December 30th.

2:04:46

Okay, got it. And so we are just acknowledging that this FOYA appeal has come in.

2:04:53

Yes, you don't have to make a decision on it tonight. It's just accepting um we've we've we've received the appeal of

2:05:01

the appeal. Correct. Yeah. This particular one there's just

2:05:06

simply not enough information and it's the sheriff's office. Um and I I mean I

2:05:12

have just had a chance like this afternoon at noon to start reading this. So I haven't even had a chance to talk

2:05:18

to the sheriff about it. So I would just make a motion to Well, we don't even have to. We just have to accept we've

2:05:24

received this Receipt. It re acknowledge receipt. Okay.

2:05:29

Can I get support? Uh, we don't have to do any.

2:05:35

Okay. Number 11, foyer appeal number 25-287. [Music]

2:05:50

Look like this one was also received December 31st.

2:05:55

this one. We've been provided uh information. I I I I do have some questions. So, I'm

2:06:03

going to make a motion even though we're just receiving it, but I'm going to make a motion that we uphold the denial, but

2:06:10

I do have questions on it. So, I will make the motion to uphold the denial.

2:06:17

Okay. Discussion. Yeah, I have a question. Is the prosecuting attorney here? Oh, great.

2:06:33

back. No, that's okay. I didn't even see you back there. Um I I have a question about

2:06:39

So, in section 14 of FOYA, you have to describe what records you're um

2:06:45

exempting. So, you you have the right of course to exempt under exemptions. So the attorney client or the work product

2:06:53

doctrine that's the exemption that you're claiming you know you have you ha you can exempt these records because of

2:07:00

that. But do you ever describe to the requesttor what documents you're

2:07:06

actually not providing? Uh when they have such a specific request I don't go ahead and describe in

2:07:13

addition to that. So you're not So So you're just going off of what they've asked for and because it's very

2:07:18

specific, you're not saying I'm exempting under this exemption and here's what I'm exempting.

2:07:24

Correct. If it was more of a a broad stroke like this one, I believe was notes, memos. Um

2:07:30

those are pretty specific. And so I think we have decision notes, we have memos. Um so you would basically just be

2:07:36

describing exactly what the requesttor has already described. Yes. It'd be very redundant of that in

2:07:42

that particular instance. So that was the one thing. The other thing is um on page four of this um memo that you

2:07:50

provided um and it says that you've granted in part and denied in part which

2:07:56

makes perfect sense and I can see what you've granted and then you have what you've denied. And what's what's

2:08:03

confusing to me is that the third bullet which is MCL 15 or the third paragraph I

2:08:10

should say which is 15243 you you say that you are denying

2:08:15

investigating report records compiled for law enforcement purposes and so forth. Isn't Isn't that what's already

2:08:23

in the first two items? It's it confused me. I didn't understand why you were

2:08:28

saying you were denying that. Like what is that? What is that? Make sure I'm looking at

2:08:35

the right thing that you're looking at. Yeah, no problem. So, okay. I'm looking at this. That's what I

2:08:41

just wanted to check. So, that's a separate sub section of exemption. There's some information um that would

2:08:46

be would constitute an unwarranted invasion of personal privacy because it's contained in a law enforcement or was compiled for law enforcement

2:08:52

purposes. Whereas there's information that yes may be the same information, but there may be additional information

2:08:58

that would fit the se the subsection of 1A which is information that would disclose would clearly constitute an

2:09:05

unwarranted invasion of individual's privacy. So they're technically two different standards. So they are so they're clearly two

2:09:10

different two different things like they could be the same piece of information. They could be separate

2:09:16

pieces of information but they are two separate subsections of uh 243. Okay,

2:09:25

I think those were my only questions. And my big question on that one was making sure that I understood why you

2:09:31

weren't describing what was in your work product. But it's because it's so well it's so detailed the request that you

2:09:38

don't need to and I can move forward with that in the future if it that makes it easier. It's just section 14 requires it and

2:09:44

that was my thought process is that it would be redundant of exactly what they were requesting. Okay. Okay. Thank you. Any

2:09:52

more discussion? All in favor?

2:09:57

I I. Anybody oppose? Motion pass.

2:10:07

Now the last one for appeal number 25-288.

2:10:19

Uh, I would make a motion to uphold the denial.

2:10:24

Support. Oh, support. Any discussion? Yes. Um,

2:10:33

what I when I read through this, I I want the requesttor to know where I'm coming from in um in upholding this

2:10:41

denial. When I read through this, uh, I felt like there was information

2:10:48

that this particular requesttor should have access to. But as I continued to

2:10:54

read through it, it became clear to me that the requesttor is upset with the

2:11:01

process, the victim's rights process. And so from looking at what was

2:11:08

requested and what was um what was available to the requester um everything that

2:11:14

was available was provided but the requesttor is not happy with the process

2:11:20

I think with the victim's rights process. So that's not our job

2:11:26

unfortunately that's not unfortunately fortunately that's not our job. um our job only is to assess the FOYA and

2:11:34

whether or not records uh should be released that weren't released. And so

2:11:40

um I'm just acknowledging to the requesttor that I can understand

2:11:46

the uh some of the language in the uh appeal, but it's not our job to analyze

2:11:53

the process, the victim's rights process. So Okay.

2:11:59

Any more discussion? All in favor? I. Anybody opposed?

2:12:06

Do we need to set a meeting date 10 days after the receipt of that?

2:12:14

Um motion passed and we need to now set a meeting date.

2:12:36

10 days

2:12:41

Monday morning 9:00 I will be I'm gone um the 11th through

2:12:46

the 14th on the 19th. Oh no the 19th is fine. Is that a holiday for us Martin Luther

2:12:52

King? It is not for the not for the county employees. Um and I I have to check if

2:12:57

the courts are open or not on Martin Luther King, but county employees are are courts are closed.

2:13:03

What time were you for me? With the um holiday, does that count as one of the 10 business days?

2:13:10

Um so we can we can just have it at the There you go. We'll just have it our regular

2:13:16

Tuesday. Wait, is it Wait, is it 10 days? Because our meetings are in the evening. Hold on. Is that right? two, three, four,

2:13:23

five, six, seven, eight, 10. Yeah. Yeah, that works. Yeah, we'll just do it at our regular meeting.

2:13:28

Regular, right? Cool. Okay, perfect. That's good.

2:13:36

Okay. Number 12. General public comment.

2:13:46

General public comment.

2:14:00

I'll try once again. Please stay. Name's Alna. Pardon? No, go ahead. Sorry. Okay, not a problem.

2:14:07

All right. And I was the grantee for the wildlife

2:14:13

habitat project out at the Delta County Forest. We applied for that 2018

2:14:20

and by grantee what that means is I was the goeteen between the actual

2:14:28

commissioners and the actual Michigan Department of Natural Resources grant

2:14:33

program. In other words, I had to make sure all the work was done properly on

2:14:40

the grant application. Everything was followed to the tea. I had to approve

2:14:45

it, take pictures of it, and actually send it in, get approval, and they, if

2:14:52

needed, would come out and actually inspect on site. They always had that

2:14:57

that right, which we did have them come out one time actually with the uh in the

2:15:05

grand opening, and they actually looked everything over. But uh in that grant,

2:15:11

the DNR actually supplied $53,000.

2:15:16

Wildlife Unlimited of Delta County and UP Whitetails Association each kicked in

2:15:22

$10,000 to meet the the match quota. Okay. We put in roads, trails, planted

2:15:31

trees, created 12 acres of wildlife openings and viewing areas.

2:15:38

We put in hardwood trees, oaks, and others. And uh

2:15:45

what basically happened with COVID and everything and the change of the commissioners,

2:15:51

I was stopped from doing any more work out there whatsoever. I gave your administrator a copy of the

2:15:57

letter I submitted to the commissioners asking for approval to go back out there

2:16:03

and finish up what I was supposed to finish with the actual grant and I was

2:16:10

kept from going out there. And I would like to relate a little bit more as far as the

2:16:17

195 people a day going out there. The last two years I actually go out there

2:16:24

and check it off and on, see what's going on. The grass is actually chest

2:16:29

high. The dead falls have not been removed from the trails. So, please tell me how

2:16:37

you're going to get 195 people a day out there to enjoy that property.

2:16:43

It's impossible. Thank you.

2:16:57

Whitney Maloney Gladstone. I'm going to just try this one last time. Um, my comment before about the general public

2:17:02

comment being in the rules and procedures. It just calls out general public comment. And on the agenda, there's two spots. There's actually

2:17:09

three ways for which the public to engage in this board. So, the public hearing, the general public comment, and

2:17:14

the public comment on agenda items. um those aren't parsed out in the rules and procedures. So, it's really unclear and

2:17:22

it's intimidating I know to a lot of folks to get up here and speak. So, I think to have that just clarified would

2:17:28

be really helpful. Lastly, um I just watching this meeting, um I

2:17:35

think it's very clear to those watching and those in this room that there are number of folks who are really

2:17:40

incredibly prepared and thoughtful and interested in being collaborative and transparent. Um

2:17:48

and I personally am disappointed that that preparation and deacto leadership

2:17:54

was not rewarded in actual leadership. So I just wanted to make that point. Thank you.

2:18:05

Any more general public comment

2:18:17

at the last couple parks and recck meetings there's been discussions on what the authority of the commission is.

2:18:23

Rory, just for one sec. Could you Oh, sorry. Rory, I apologize. Okay. just for the YouTube. So,

2:18:29

it's a YouTube way. Okay. Um Okay. So, um there there was questions

2:18:35

on these Michigan compiled laws. So, representatives and our senators are very helpful to get you in touch with

2:18:41

attorneys in Lancing who can explain these laws. So basically section 46.351

2:18:48

and 46.354 do talk about these and then nowhere in

2:18:53

there does it give up the rights of the Delta County Board of Commissioners as being the oversight. And then it became

2:19:00

even more confusing when you looked at the park and wreck plan when you saw the structure which does show you guys above

2:19:07

everything. And then when you go to page 24, there's really

2:19:13

it agrees with that. The county board is a structure. It says right here, parks and rec commission with input from the

2:19:20

parks manager, provides the annual budget, citizen oversight, sets policy, and evaluates proposals, and makes

2:19:26

recommendations to the board of commissioners. Everything on this page says that. And so I think it's up to the

2:19:34

commissioners to decide if you're going to give up that authority or if you're going to keep it or what you're going to do because the law doesn't back it in

2:19:40

that. And then the last thing I want to bring up during public comment was that

2:19:46

your past park manager and maybe John you can check into this being the chairman uh resigned and left the county

2:19:54

somewhere right around the middle of June. he has not been paid everything

2:20:00

that he is due and according to him it's over $20,000 and it's the middle of

2:20:05

January. So, I'm guessing it's an oversight. At least I'm hoping it's an oversight, but you know, it's been good

2:20:12

six months and it would be really nice if somebody could look in that, maybe the finance committee, doesn't matter,

2:20:17

but and just find out, do you guys owe the man over $20,000? And uh because I guess he did request

2:20:25

here a couple months ago and he was told, you know, don't worry, we're taking care of it. And obviously, it

2:20:32

hasn't been done. So, I you know, I'm I'm just bringing it to your attention

2:20:37

um for Steve, I guess. And the other thing that was in the the thing that I

2:20:43

didn't get to because of the timing is I see where you want to pave for trails

2:20:48

from Ba It looks like the bath house. It doesn't say the bath house though, but I'm guessing the bath house over to the

2:20:54

river. Remember, there's a $300,000

2:20:59

septic mound there. Please do not put asphalt I mean anything over the top of

2:21:04

that. That's why we had a sign up restricting that because if that goes out everything else in that right there

2:21:11

is wetland

2:21:29

Baron. Uh I was at the planning and zoning meeting last night and the main

2:21:35

agenda item was the master plan and one of the the last slide had a square on it

2:21:42

talked about future land uh future land use plan. Nowhere in this uh

2:21:47

presentation and in the county master plan survey does it u give any credence

2:21:54

to the property owners. It's all assumed that um the master plan and the planning

2:22:01

and zoning that the property owner is an insignificant individual here.

2:22:07

Uh the uh the survey uh if you you go

2:22:14

through study this thing and question 13 it says would what would be your

2:22:19

priority for updated zoning regulations in the area in which you live? Uh under this it says choose one but it and the

2:22:26

two of them it has here protecting residents from the impacts of intensive development anticipating future issues

2:22:32

of uses or development uh yeah of uses or development that may create issues.

2:22:39

Well uh one of the things that they went over was nimism. Those two things right there referring to nimism. You go a

2:22:46

little further down his one blank is all the above. So this that's one that

2:22:51

doesn't know much about it. They'll more than likely mark that on it. Um and they

2:22:56

talked about nimism on their presentation. Uh this fellow from Cupad did.

2:23:02

Well, the uh uh it's not something that you

2:23:08

can uh you know when you deny when you ignore the land owners uh that you know

2:23:13

better than they do. And then it was brought out specifically by the comments from the planning commission last night

2:23:20

in their board comments. The one that was most telling was one of the newest members and said that uh as far as they

2:23:28

didn't like having to tell people what to do on their property, but and that's

2:23:33

always a dandy, but uh in uh 40 to 50 years they'll probably that individual

2:23:39

wouldn't be here and so uh zoning is great. Well, what struck me immediately

2:23:45

was that I didn't realize he was raising dumb kids because the reality is you're you're saying that well the next bunch

2:23:51

aren't going to be as smart as I am now. And that's ridiculous. I think this

2:23:57

zoning is 50 years old in the rural areas in of Delta County. And uh it its

2:24:03

track record is pathetic and I think the county board jammed it

2:24:08

down the throats of the people without them even getting a vote on it. I think that this county board needs to get out of zoning and let the townships have

2:24:16

their uh their individual townships vote on whether they want it or not. It ne

2:24:21

never had the opportunity in Delta County. Monomony County did next door and so did a whole lot of other places

2:24:27

across the UP. The only free spot in Delta County is the village of Garden.

2:24:36

Any

2:24:42

other general public comment? Anything on

2:24:49

Thank you. Any other general public comment? I'm sorry. I have into this phone.

2:24:58

This is what happens when I lose my phone.

2:25:04

No. No. No. Okay, we'll move on to Commissioner comment.

2:25:11

Commissioner Johnson, happy new year everybody. Um, glad to see so much participation. It was nice to see everybody out. Uh, one thing I

2:25:18

would like to see is um, I'm really happy uh, the fisherman came out to uh, suggest sack bay. I would like to see

2:25:24

that in the uh, wreck plan. I think that's a great suggestion. Um, I caught wind of it just a couple days ago and

2:25:31

um, I'm glad you guys are here letting us know that that needs to happen. So, thank you. And then also I'd like to

2:25:36

address departmental updates. Um we don't get a whole lot of departmental updates anymore and I know it's

2:25:43

intimidating up there um when you're not used to sitting behind this nice big wall. Um but it would be great if people

2:25:51

in our departments let us know the progress of like a department or if something new is happening. We would

2:25:57

really appreciate to know like, hey, I'm thinking about breaking ground on this or I thinking about this new purchase or

2:26:02

hey by did you know that spyw wear is up a million% or whatever

2:26:08

whatever stats are out there to like just let us know like things to be aware of. That way if they do come to this

2:26:13

board um we've already kind of been briefed on it and we can react appropriately and um vote appropriately.

2:26:18

Um try to keep down the arguments back and forth as much as we possibly can. Um, ideally we're going to use the table

2:26:25

a little bit more to have our more private or more um conducive more discussion type meetings. Um, so

2:26:32

departmental updates, please make it um to these meetings if you have something to update us with. Thank you.

2:26:38

Commissioner Kelly. Yes. Um, I would just like to thank the gentlemen to for coming and and

2:26:45

discussing the sack bay. I had stopped by our maintenance department this fall to see how things were going, to see

2:26:52

what projects they were going to be working on and one of our maintenance crew said, "Oh yeah, so and so is out uh

2:26:58

he had to drive up to over to Sack Bay to to mow it. What are we doing out

2:27:04

there? Why do we have it? Like we we spend all day, you know, going out there and mowing and you don't see any

2:27:10

development on it." So when you guys came forward tonight, I was like, "Yes, like this is our opportunity now. I can

2:27:16

go back to that maintenance employee and say potentially, hey, you know, there are people who are interested in that

2:27:21

piece of property and and what we can do to maintain it. So, thank you for that. I wish everybody um a happy new year. I

2:27:28

look forward to um another year on this board. Um I wish Commissioner uh Johnson

2:27:34

the best and vice chair. I'll definitely miss it. Um and and moving forward with Commissioner Mner as our our board chair

2:27:40

and I look forward to many spicy discussions in the future. Thank you,

2:27:47

Commissioner Jensen. Yeah, thank you. Congratulations you, too. Um, happy new year to everyone

2:27:54

here. Um, those have known me a long time. I'd like to see people in the

2:27:59

audience. Um, especially for a public hearing. Um, it's really disconcerting

2:28:05

when all of a sudden you have a public hearing, it's been out there for a while, and you have one or two people

2:28:11

show up versus more people. So, um, thank you for everybody that showed up tonight. Hopefully, we will continue to

2:28:18

see more as we move forward. Um, that would that would be a bad problem to

2:28:23

have because we had to find another venue because we had too many people. Um, I think that's something that would

2:28:31

be rather exciting. So, um, I know the temperature is right around that point, so everyone be careful as you're leaving

2:28:38

tonight. I know it's going to start to get icy here pretty quick. So, thank you everyone and look forward to the next

2:28:44

year. Commission Mayor Williams, uh, I've got a couple of things. Um, uh,

2:28:50

my townships have been asking questions about our address signs and whether we

2:28:55

have a plan for missing and damaged signs as time goes on. So, just something to let everybody know about.

2:29:02

And then um maybe John and and and Matt if you guys can ask your townships if

2:29:08

they have some process that they're using and maybe we could come up with like a countywide approach if that

2:29:13

doesn't already exist. It might already exist. I don't know. So whether you have or not

2:29:19

well if you it's kind of a long discussion so we can probably talk about it after and then we'll relay

2:29:25

information to Perfect. That would be great if we can communicate with them. Um, if you have

2:29:31

additional feedback for the county's five-year wck plan in addition to what was uh presented here, by the way, what

2:29:37

was presented here will be transcribed and given to the parks and recck commission uh members by tomorrow

2:29:44

morning so that they have it for their Thursday meeting. But if you have additional um information, you want u to

2:29:52

provide additional feedback, then please attend the fiveyear or the five, please attend the parks and rec commission

2:29:58

meeting on Thursday. It's in this room at 5:30 p.m. Uh so uh any information

2:30:04

that's being presented is going to be reviewed and um and uh discussed at that

2:30:09

meeting. Uh obviously there have been many many times to provide public comment. Um, so folks who think that

2:30:17

they haven't had uh their comments uh uh listened to, if you still believe that,

2:30:23

you know, please attend the uh PRC meeting and you can provide that input at that meeting. Um that is not that

2:30:30

that meeting is when the parks and recck commission is planning to finalize the

2:30:36

plan. Um there's lots of public comment that came in through the online form and

2:30:41

so uh and then obviously there's a lot of public comment that came in here tonight and so we'll take all of that

2:30:47

and um review it and ingest uh whatever the group decides they want to put in the plan. So um also I want to just let

2:30:54

everybody know that the brownfield authority is being reactivated. Uh this is a very important um group. It is um

2:31:02

it has a goal of this next year to get a portfolio together so we can have developable sites to share with any

2:31:08

potential developers. Um that goal also includes documenting the price for any price the process for any grant funding

2:31:16

that might be able to prioritize those sites for redevelopment. So if there's folks out there that are interested in

2:31:21

serving on Brownfield Authority, um I think we're going to announce there's a 30-day um window for that right now.

2:31:28

Please get involved. Um, I'd love to see lots of input on that and and I hope that it can get reinvigorated in a

2:31:34

really positive way this next year. Do I'm sorry, Commissioner Williams, I don't mean to interrupt you. Do we have

2:31:39

um specifications for the membership? No, I have not. I Tracy said that she

2:31:44

looked through um the board secretary said she looked through what she had and she said, "I'm going to have to go in the basement and see." It's been so long

2:31:51

since it's met. I don't know. So, at this time, we don't know how many people would be on it. I think right now there were five. There

2:31:57

were five. Yeah, there were five originally. So, I think if we got five member, well, there's one commissioner

2:32:02

and then whatever members. Um, but I don't know if there's stipulations associated with

2:32:07

like district requirements, things of that nature. Okay. Thank you. So, but but we are we're still looking.

2:32:13

So, yeah. Yeah, Tracy's going to she'll probably have to go to the basement, see if she can find uh the information.

2:32:20

You're gonna have to send out a search party. Yeah, exactly. Um uh and then the there

2:32:26

was a comment made about uh inconsistency in the um parks and under

2:32:31

in the five-year rec plan about uh the language of the PRC and that is known that has been commented on and we do

2:32:38

plan to um create consistency around that language so that uh it isn't inconsistent but when the plan was very

2:32:46

first started back in January there was some confusion around the role of this uh commission and so that language will

2:32:52

be cleaned up. So, no worries there. Uh, I want to thank everybody for coming out, especially the folks coming out,

2:32:58

the Fisherman's Association. Thank you very much. Very much appreciate hearing from you. Uh, appreciated all of your

2:33:04

feedback that came in on the online forms. That was great. Uh, and I think that uh looking at uh water access,

2:33:11

obviously that was the number one goal that came out of our survey from all of our constituents. Um, you know, access

2:33:17

to that waterfront is important. Um, and obviously there's a particular area of Delta County that maybe needs some

2:33:23

focus. So, uh, thank you again and, uh, happy new year everybody and, uh, I look

2:33:28

forward to the next year. Thank you. Okay. Um me and John Stapleton have well John

2:33:37

Stapleton brought it to my attention about the fisherman down in uh Fairport

2:33:43

and I actually have within the last year talked to uh the regional manager up in

2:33:51

Marquette from the DNR Stacy and she did she talked a little bit and then I told

2:33:59

John I says we got to get some people together, some fishermen together and

2:34:04

start creating some noise. So on that, I give one of the gentlemen my

2:34:11

card to get a hold of me and uh give me a call and I think if we can get a group

2:34:18

together and pound the DNR a little bit and maybe maybe we can get something

2:34:27

at the park up there also. So, but I know that park the water it's

2:34:34

shallow for quite a ways. No, no,

2:34:40

you can talk to me later. So, yes, I have known about this. Me, John

2:34:45

Stapleton, I told him, I said, "We got to get some people together and get something going to get the DNR moving."

2:34:53

So, on that, have a great new year.

2:34:58

Uh meeting schedule, regular board meeting, commissioner board meeting on

2:35:03

1226 at 5:15 right here at the service center. Uh the next one would be

2:35:10

February 3rd, 2026. Yeah, we're talking February already.

2:35:15

Wow. At 5:15 here at the service center. And then the third one is 217 at 5:15 here

2:35:22

at the service center. We just had Christmas. Yeah, I know. No wonder this job goes

2:35:29

fast. Uh notice uh 30-day notice of appointment. There is opening on

2:35:34

Department of Human Services. That's stateapp appointed. There's building

2:35:40

authority, superior trade zone. And the new one with Commissioner Williams was

2:35:45

just talking about was the Brownfield redevelopment authority.

2:35:51

On that I need a motion to adjurnn. So moved. support.

2:35:56

Good night.